I'm afraid not.
The problem is the "provisional" training, which ante-dates the Primary
FACEM exam. It is only training taken after an "Entrance to Higher
Training" Examination which counts for the purposes of specialty training in
the EU model.
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 07 August 2001 10:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Whats wrong with me ?
Thanks Patrick,
The FACEM is 5 years of higher training - but is divided
into a first year of provisional training of 6 months ED / 6 months
other,(to assess suitability and complete the First part), prior to 4
further advanced years - all of this follows the basic training period of
several years - trainees who started prior to 1999 are on a five year
advanced programme before they re-named the years. So I assume that would
meet the european union criteria ?
thanks
Craig
>From: "Plunkett, Patrick (Emergency Medicine)" <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Accident and Emergency Academic List <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Whats wrong with me ?
>Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:29:43 +0100
>
>FACEM and FAEM training are, on paper, very similar, but there is a
>significant difference in that 5 years Higher Specialty Training is
>mandatory under European rules, whereas FACEM only needs four years. (30
>months in Emergency Departments and 18 months in other disciplines)
>
>In Ireland, we have already approved for entry to the Specialist Register
>some FACEM who have done an extra year of training after their entry exam
>to
>Higher Specialist training, on an Ad Hominem basis. If they hadn't got the
>extra year, they would not fulfil minimum European requirements under
>Article 3 of Directive
><http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1998/en_398L0063.html> 98/63/EC,
>amending Article 27 of Directive
><http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1993/en_393L0016.html> 93/16/EEC.
>O
> nce you have 5 years Higher Training completed, the JCHT A&E might be
>able
>to agree Ad Hominem status, accepting FACEM as equivalent to FFAEM. I
>would
>have thought that applicationto the Faculty, at that time, for Fellowship
>without examination (Standing Order 5.2), based on your FACEM, would also
>be
>an appropriate move.
>
>I think it is unfair to ask Jonathan to comment, particularly on an
>individual case, as he has a statutory position in relation to judgement on
>these issues, which must remain independent and particular to each
>individual circumstance.
>
>Picky and pedantic, possibly, but there are similar examples of control and
>protection of markets everywhere - Jel's case being a classic. Anyone
>tried
>to train in the USA recently?
>
>As to Simon's query, I suggest he looks up the requirements for training on
>the <http://www.acem.org.au/open/documents/fellowship.htm> ACEM Website.
>I
>think the requirement for publication or presentation under peer-review is
>marginally tougher than FAEM's CTR, but not of great significance.
>
>The comment on clinical evaluation in the FFAEM is noted, and known, but
>surely it is for a robust RITA system to ensure that trainees are up to
>scratch clinically before presenting for the exam? Only our profession can
>adequately decide whether a person is acceptable, but they must do so in a
>reproducible, transparent and fair fashion. That makes clinical exams,
>performed in a ½ to 1 hour setting totally unrealistic.
>
>
>Patrick
>
>[For my sins, a member of the Education and Examination Committee of FAEM
>and (in Ireland) the Chairman of the Advisory Committee on Emergency
>Medicine Training.]
>
>
>
>Mr Patrick K Plunkett
>Consultant/ Senior Lecturer in Emergency Medicine
>Department of Emergency Medicine
>St James's Hospital
>Dublin 8
>Ph:(+353 1) 416 2777
>Fax (+353 1) 410 3451
>
>[log in to unmask]
>[log in to unmask]
>
>http://www.stjames.ie/ <http://www.stjames.ie/>
>http://www.tcd.ie/Clinical_Medicine/ <http://www.tcd.ie/Clinical_Medicine/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Ellis [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]> mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 06 August 2001 23:32
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Whats wrong with me ?
>
>
>Ive just about finished my training here in Australia and NZ. My partner
>and
>I planned to work for a year or 2 in the UK. She is a recently qualified
>consultant anaesthetist and has had work offers as a locum consultant
>thrown
>at her. Another friend of mine who has just completed his training in
>cardiology and is currently working in a large london hospital as a locum
>consultant cardiologist for 12 months.
>
>So Ive been making enquiries about working in the UK as an ED consultant
>(Ive already worked here as a SpR) when I complete my FACEM.
>
>I was somewhat surprised to discover that the FACEM is not recognised as a
>specialist qualification in A&E medicine, and I am required to work another
>12 months as a registrar and then sit your exams before I could locum as a
>consultant. Id be interested in the lists opinion as to why the FACEM isnt
>considered equivelent to the FFAEM. All the UK trained consultants Ive
>spoken with who have worked in Australasia certainly believe they are
>equivelent and most have commented that if anything the FACEM has a more
>critical care bent. So any suggestions as to why I cannot work as a
>consultant ? What are the deficiencies in the training - the woman I spoke
>too couldnt tell me - just that the board had decided us southerners
>training was inferior. I dont really fancy an extra year as a registrar.
>
>Id be interested in everyones opinions, especially those involved in these
>sorts of issues. Is this the case ?
>
>cheers
>
>Craig
>
>PS. The woman I spoke to at the College was very rude !
>
>
>
>
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