Yes: I think the distinction that Lawrence makes is extremely important.
The whole point about an 'academic' environment is that there are certain
rules of conduct which allow productive debate to go on. If people don't
like those rules - which include a general level of civility, so that
disagreement doesn't have to mean outright warfare, and the general
dis-connection of social comment from personal comment (i.e. in attacking a
particular position one does not attack the person holding it unless one
has evidence they are acting in 'bad faith) - they must, I feel, take their
arguments elsewhere. I know that this could be construed as highly
'conservative'; a wish to maintain rigid boundaries which - as good po-mo's
all - we are expected to transgress; but many boundaries are 'progressive'
and 'productive' in the sense that they do allow us to discuss and create
without the constraints that, say, an argument down the pub after six pints
doesn't allow us to. And if you think I'm just reactionary, just remember
that a key part of Mussolini's strategy in the 1930s was to restrict
non-vocational education to all but a pre-selected elite. Why? Because he
didn't want to encourage the 'proletariat' to inhabit and construct
environments in which progressive political projects might be formulated.
Graham
At 10:32 AM 3/7/01 -0800, Lawrence Berg wrote:
>I was NOT saying that we cannot be critical of each other on this forum.
>
>I WAS saying that this forum is not the place to call each other liars.
>
>So, in the case of Paul's last post, it was acceptable to argue that Gerard
>Toal was incorrect. However, it was not appropriate to say that Gerard
>Toal DELIBERATELY LIED about events.
>
>I find many of Paul's comments to be important critiques of many
>taken-for-granted aspects of both liberalism and critical geography. I do
>not wish to remove him (my liberalism coming to the fore again). His last
>posting contained a great deal of support for his contention that Gerard
>Toal's argument was incorrect. Unfortunately, he appears to have called
>another critical geographer a deliberate liar, and that is unacceptable
>behaviour on this list.
>
>However, if he or anyone accuses others of deliberate lies without
>substantive proof (something that is almost impossible to prove, and
>doesn't accept that people can be mistaken or that all social facts are
>open to different interpretations), I have little choice but to remove
>them. These kinds of statements violate list policy, Jiscmail policy, and
>in some cases may violate legal statutes relating to libel.
>
>lawrence
>
>
>
>At 9:11 am -0800 7/3/01, Alan Patterson wrote:
>>If list members can't offer critiques of the work of 'critical
>>geographers' on crit-geog-forum where should they do so? What forum
>>would be preferable? In fact this is exactly the right place for such a
>>discussion.
>>
>>In the past, some contributors have been critical of Paul Treanor's
>>postings because, in making general complaints about critical geography,
>>he has not cited specific authors or papers - his latest posting does
>>so, offering counter arguments to a particular paper. This is to be
>>commended, not replied to with threats of excommunication (!).
>>
>>Or have I missed the point, perhaps Lawrence Berg's email was an ironic
>>post-modern form of 'refutation' of Paul Treanor's closing remark:
>>
>>> By maintaining a closed academic circle, and excluding attacks on
>>> propagandists like Toal, 'critical' geographers are complicit in this new
>>> rhetoric of western liberal-democratic expansionism.
>>
>>--
>>Alan
>>
>> Dr Alan Patterson
>> Department of Geography & Earth Sciences
>> Brunel University, Uxbridge, Middx. UB8 3PH UK
>> Tel: 01895 274000 x2689; Fax: 01895 203217
>> Dept's Website: http://www.brunel.ac.uk/depts/geo
>
>
>
>
>dr. lawrence d. berg
>department of geography
>okanagan university college
>7000 college way
>vernon, b.c., V1B 2N5
>canada
>phone: 250/545-7291 ext. 2264
>fax: 250/545-3277
>
>email1: [log in to unmask]
>email2: [log in to unmask]
>www: http://www.geog.ouc.bc.ca/geog/berg/Berghome/
>
>ACME: An International E-Journal for Critical Geographies
> http://www.acme-journal.org
>
>¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`¤º°`°º¤
>
>
Graham Gardner
Institute of Geography & Earth Sciences
University of Wales
Aberystwyth
Ceredigion
SY23 3DB
Wales
UK
Tel: 0044 (0)1970 622606
Fax: 0044 (0)1970 622659
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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