The problem with using text in database fields is not that
it is not portable but rather that it is constraining on
the question designer because you must have a fixed number
of answers to each MCQ. This is easily avoided using XML
tags which are automatically scalable.
Jon Sims Williams
On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 20:18:07 -0000 Martin Schranz
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > there are gains for those of us who like to
> > work in a more open way too.
>
> what do you mean Andy?
> what can be more generic or 'open' than plain text?
> mySQL is free and open source, so is PHP,
> to use data from a database simply point your script to fields in the
> tables,
> tainting the data with XML tags is a step backwards,
>
> > It will be a shameful
> > loss if your ideas are not usable by others within their
> > own system
>
> you can import and export data at your heart's content , you could use this
> data on any system because it's plain text, if you want to add tags than
> that's up to you, who's stopping you?
>
> > If we all re-invent wheels then
> > we are wasting valuable effort.
>
> Who's re-inventing wheels?
>
> I don't really understand what you're getting at, can you explain ?
> stored data is best left as simple text alone,
>
>
>
>
> regards,
>
> Martin Schranz
>
> [log in to unmask]
> Dublin, Ireland
> www.mcqs.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andy Heath <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:19 PM
> Subject: Re: XML, resource discovery and MCQ sharing
>
>
> > This is interesting stuff Martin, but isn't the point of the
> > IMS QTI standard (and other IMS specs come to that) to enable
> > us to stand on each others' shoulders and therefore achieve
> > more ?
> >
> > It strikes me that for several of the facilities you have
> > implemented there are IMS specifications that have been
> > implemented by some vendors.
> >
> > The point here is to be able to interoperate, share
> > representations (at least for import/export) and make
> > it worth building systems that are too expensive
> > otherwise. If we all re-invent wheels then
> > we are wasting valuable effort. It will be a shameful
> > loss if your ideas bare not usable by others within their
> > own system
> >
> > Naturally there are many business agenda's in there
> > but there are gains for those of us who like to
> > work in a more open way too.
> >
> > andy
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > > David, I think you're doing this the wrong way round,
> > >
> > > Why use XML at the 'raw' stage? Why not use plain text in a database and
> > > query data directly from your script?
> > >
> > > I've done this on http://www.mcqs.com/mysql/
> > >
> > > feel free to query this database using your own scripts,
> > > you can create your own combinations by querying different tables, in
> this
> > > way you may create an infinite number of questions,
> > >
> > > I've put the components of each MCQ into tables in a mySQL database and
> > > query it using PHP (you may use PERL if you want, contact me for
> details),
> > > you could add your XML/HTML/WML tags at your end if you want, make sure
> you
> > > strip or replace any tags before doing this,
> > >
> > > here's how I've done it (to see it in action go to http://www.mcqs.com
> and
> > > log into the PLAB COURSE using plabcourse as username and password )
> > >
> > > I've created the following tables
> > >
> > > table sets3 - this stores several strings each of which are 60
> characters
> > > long, each character corresponds to a 'combination'
> > >
> > > table combinations3 - this stores fields that contain the data of each
> > > complete question
> > >
> > > question -> stores question number, ten option numbers , the correct
> answer
> > > , the
> > > explanation number,
> > >
> > > table question3 - contains the actual text corresponding to each
> question
> > > number
> > >
> > > table options3 - contains the actual text corresponding to each question
> > > number
> > >
> > > table explanations3 - contains the actual text corresponding to each
> > > explanation number
> > >
> > > table mrcp_members - contains the returned email, answer string and date
> of
> > > each attempted quiz
> > >
> > > In other words,
> > >
> > > the student logs in using his email as username,
> > > he is assigned a random set number,
> > > this set number is used to retrieve a 60 field array of numbers from
> table
> > > sets3,
> > > this array is read sequentially, each field corresponds to a particular
> row
> > > from table combinations3,
> > > each row is retrieved from table combinations3 and the corresponding
> > > question, options, answer and explanations are read
> > > these numbers are used to retrieve specific text from tables questions3,
> > > options3, explanations3
> > > these are written to the page ,
> > > the students' answers are recorded in a session and stored in a 60
> character
> > > long string and he is graded on the spot,
> > > the set number, answer string, student email and date are written to
> table
> > > called mrcp_members and the student is returned to the home page,
> > > I've also built a 'profile' page where each student may log in
> > > and retrieve his past performances from table "mrcp_members" ,
> > >
> > > the script should builds a list of past performances for that particular
> > > student, including bar charts etc , comparing his performance to the
> average
> > > performance etc.
> > >
> > > I have also built an adminstrator interface so that tutors would easily
> > > insert questions, options and answers from a user friendly form, at the
> > > moment I am personally entering data manually using phpmyAdmin on
> > > http://www.mcqs.com/mysql/
> > >
> > > using this system tutors are able to create new combinations and new
> sets
> > > by simply
> > > matching data already on the database and are search options so
> > > that the tutor would be able to retrieve specific
> > > questions/options/explanations
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Martin Schranz
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > Dublin, Ireland
> > > www.mcqs.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: David Davies <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 5:39 PM
> > > Subject: XML, resource discovery and MCQ sharing
> > >
> > > > OK, it's Friday afternoon, here's one of those end of week kind of
> things.
> > > >
> > > > In my previous post, I asked about using XML to share resources such
> as
> > > > MCQs, including the possibilities of using resource discovery as a
> means
> > > to
> > > > facilitate that.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a URL to start the discussion:
> > > >
> > > > http://medweb2.bham.ac.uk/xml.mcqs.fcgi?heart%20conduction%20system
> > > >
> > > > The result is an XML RSS file, the kind of data file that syndication
> > > sites
> > > > such as My Netscape and My yahoo use. It's not IMS compliant.
> > > >
> > > > What it does do however is indicate which MCQs on a public database
> I'm
> > > > running match your query term. The RSS file is by definition not an
> > > > interchange format, merely a route whereby you might discover a
> resource,
> > > > MCQ in this case, that matches your requirements. You can put anything
> > > after
> > > > the ? in the URL so long as it's URL encoded e.g. spaces become %20.
> > > > However, in this demo, you won't find many questions! Stick with the
> heart
> > > > conduction system link. If you insist, try 'respiratory'.
> > > >
> > > > Issues I think this raises:
> > > >
> > > > 1. You can use XML in more ways than merely interchange.
> > > >
> > > > 2. The URL contains a query 'heart conduction system' that is actually
> > > part
> > > > of a well defined biomedical meta data name space, Medical
> Sub-Headings
> > > > (MeSh). Such meta data can facilitate resource discovery.
> > > >
> > > > 3. 'Ownership' of the resource remains with the originator i.e. the
> RSS
> > > file
> > > > in this case merely links to the question on my server. In no way have
> I
> > > > 'given' you my resource. You can however use the link to embed this
> MCQ
> > > into
> > > > a page you are creating. This has interesting implications for
> resource
> > > > sharing, perhaps?
> > > >
> > > > So OK, I've started the discussion. What are other's views on this?
> Let's
> > > > have some debate on these lists rather than just notices.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Heath Home:+44 (0)114 2885738 [log in to unmask]
> > Sheffield Hallam University participating in
> > Centre for Educational Technology Interoperability Standards
> >
> >
----------------------
Jon Sims Williams
Dept. Engineering Maths,
University of Bristol
Bristol BS8 1TR
Email: [log in to unmask]
Tel; 0117-928 7757, Fax: 0117-925 1154
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