Dear All,
Please find attached the weekly GridPP Project Management Board
Meeting minutes. The latest minutes can be found each week in:
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~doyle/GridPP/PMB/minutes/this-week.txt
(as well as being listed with other minutes e.g. 011001.txt)
Cheers, Tony
________________________________________________________________________
Tony Doyle, GridPP Project Leader Telephone: +44-141-330 5899
Rm 482, Kelvin Building Telefax: +44-141-330 5881
Dept of Physics and Astronomy EMail: [log in to unmask]
University of Glasgow Web: http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~doyle
G12 8QQ, UK Video - IP: 194.36.1.234
________________________________________________________________________
GridPP PMB Minutes 5 - 1st October 2001
========================================
Present: Roger Barlow (RB), Dave Britton (DB), Nick Brook(NB), Pete Clarke(PC),
Tony Doyle(TD), Neil Geddes(NIG), John Gordon(JCG), Steve Lloyd(SLL),
Robin Middleton(RPM), Les Robertson(LR)
Review of Actions
-----------------
ONGOING...
1.1 RPM to determine status of awarded EDG posts Liverpool outstanding.
Robin will circulate remainder.
Closed
1.11 PC & DB to determine which project management tools to be used
Will be done but not critical path. Not before 19th.
2.3 LR to table a 1-page document on the proposal to spend 300k on hardware.
Initial discussions with STK suggest tape best done in Switzerland, not
through UK.
2.4 LR to contact Guy Rickett to confirm financial transfer options
PPARC would like equipment to be purchased in UK.
CLOSED
2.5 RPM to put place holder for InterGrid with potential interest from
BaBar/CDF/D0 using prototype Tier-1/A at RAL.
Done. RPM will present BaBar case on Sunday.
D0 status will be presented by Kors Bos. What about CDF? RPM needs brief.
2.6 RB to track options via InterGrid from application point of view
Document in draft. France and US interested. Probably involve Italy too.
Should be ready for Robin before weekend. Richard Mount says the Grid
projects need to contribute staff effort.
Should discuss SHEFC bid with Edinburgh so that it can include BaBar.
3.2 PC, NB, RB + EB to define experimental requirements
3.8 NG to provide details of Oversight Board timetable
3.10 DB to assess current financial commitments prior to request for transfer
of up to 200k (total) via RAL SLA for travel this year
4.1 TD to set up the PMB web pages
Exists on Glasgow Server, but requires transfer to GridPP site
4.2 NB to set up the EB web pages
Exists on Bristol Server, but requires transfer to GridPP site
4.3 SLL to set up CB web pages
Done - but discussion on usability
4.4 RPM & PC to finalise GridPP PMB roles before next meeting
Done
4.5 RB to table a 1-page docuument to InterGrid on BaBar interest
In preparation
4.6 RPM to circulate Les' background note
Done
4.7 RPM to formulate guidance on costs of sending person to CERN on LTA.
Some examples would be useful. Agree with Ken Peach and circulate to PMB
(Les would use this information to inform potential applicants).
Started but not yet complete.
4.8 TD to contact Mary Elizabeth Shewry about the potential need for
accommodation for Grid LTAs
Done
4.9 JCG to prepare the advert in the EU Journal.
Within a couple of days
4.10 RPM to appraise David Boyd of Globus support through DataGrid in the
short term
Done
4.11 TD to appraise Malcolm Atkinson and NeSC of Globus support through
DataGrid in the short term
Done - MA thought that UK should give support through GSC.
4.12 RPM to circulate a paragraph for submission to next DataGrid PMB on UK
position on Globus support.
Done
4.13 SLL to send to AstroGrid a list of the GridPP working group contacts
Done - currently available via GridPP Technical Board page
4.14 ALL - Each PMB member should prepare a presentation on the issues
they see confronting GridPP over the coming few months.
Technical Developments (Pete Clarke)
------------------------------------
In summary Pete was happy with developments. His highest priority was to talk
with the experiments. He had already had intensive discussion with LHCb, CDF
and BaBar but less contact (if any) with the remaining experiments. He was
planning to concentrate on the documentation the experiments had already
provided to him for the 8th October deadline. He saw this not as a hard
deadline but part of an interative process. He would like the TB to look at
possible solutions to the expt. requirements to that end he would like to
have on the TB: Dave Colling, Andy McNab and John Gordon + others.
His strategy was that GridPP should be pushing for expt projects that could
deliver real, tangible (visible) goals on the timescale of GridPP.
Future Experiments & Theory (Nick Brook)
----------------------------------------
EB meeting on 2nd October to discuss technical requirements.
Minimal feedback from input from ALICE UK. They have no definition of program
in UK beyond installing ALICE s/w across Grid. Request for modest manpower to
achieve this. ATLAS requirements & use case document under preparation. Joint
meeting between ATLAS & LHCb computing co-ordinators (plus other interested
parties) to discuss joint Gaudi initiatives. CMS submitted long term DataGrid
requirements document. Detailed discussion of what they would like to achieve
over the Grid, no explicit use case scenarios. (Submitted after PMB meeting)
LHCb submitted use case and requirement document based on distillation of
DataGrid short-term & long-term requirement documents. Also submitted their
draft DataGrid project plan. LHCb & ATLAS are developing join initiatives
(see discussion under ATLAS). Theory have a modest, well defined short-term
programme. They wish to transparently access a fixed distributed set of
data over a small node of facilities based at UK QCD institutes.
Running Experiments (Roger Barlow)
----------------------------------
BaBar use case has been iterated with Peter Clarke. There has been Input from
D0 and "other" experiments and CDF's input is imminent (arrived after PMB
meeting). BaBar management warm(ish) to the UK Tier A proposal. BaBar UK
agrees that 20TB disk can be cheap IDE/linux. From the BaBar point of view,
Athlons CPU are out. BaBar UK had concerns about purchase timescales.
On the involvement of BaBar in the InterGrid project there is already
UK/France collaboration and US joining enthusiastically. It is difficult
defining the timescales and further discussion is needed for what we can do
in 12 months.
CERN (Les Robertson)
--------------------
There have been no major developments since reporting back last week.
The situation with the LHC computing project is the manpower is fully funded
but not the hardware. CERN will be setting up a MC production system in the
Grid context. Les indicated that CERN GridPP manpower could be directed from
within the UK towards delivering effort for technical work groups and also
support for Grid-ification of experimental software. Les circulated the
CERN staffing requirements and undertook to keep PMB informed about job
description and adverts as they appeared.
DataGrid (Robin Middleton)
--------------------------
RPM is monitoring the progress of the deliverables. Steve Fisher has taken
over from RPM in heading up WP3. There seems to be a large gulf between WP8
and the technical packages in their understanding of each other. The PMB
should be pro-active in promoting DataGrid activity within the UK.
Hardware Advisory Group (John Gordon)
-------------------------------------
BaBar wants hardware by the end of the year. In principle this is
achievable but in practice is not feasible. A disk tender and a CPU tender
will be be prepared. The tender for the STK will be handled differently.
It was agreed that IDE disk would be OK. CMS & BaBar flagged they need
disk space now. 4Tb will be purchased outside of EU tender process. JCG
will advertise notification of tender in the EU journal in next few days,
which gives 1-2 weeks to firm up specifications. John has been making
technical contacts with Tier 2 centres to discuss establishing Grid
framework: Liverpool(Patel), Glasgow(Martin), and Imperial(Colling).
Discussion followed about manpower effort available through GridPP for
Tier 2 support - it was assumed that this should come through
displacement.
Resources (Dave Britton)
------------------------
Work is ongoing assessing project management tools (with PC) - not regarded as
high priority. The spend to date is to be understood (liaise with RPM).
Dave needed to understand committments this FY (iterate with Dave Morrell).
NIG will provide the cost of the current allocated jobs to Dave. The provision
of travel within GridPP had to be understood and how this was built into the
original formulae and does it need to be re-addressed. A financial reporting
format needs to be put in place.
A RAL assessment document, prepared by Dave Morrell, of staff in place who
will contribute to the GridPP programme was discussed.
A long discussion about displacement took place. It was clear that there was
some confusion across the community about what this entailed. It was also
clear that non-Grid expt. core software effort could not be displaced.
These displacement issues will be raised at the next Collaboration Board
meeting.
Summary (Tony Doyle)
--------------------
We need to refine financial model.
The EB requirements need to be fed into the TB which then produce the
TB summary of requirements inc. proposed implementation methods.
It will be important to discuss this at the next collab. mtg.
Next meeting: 15th October - 1:00pm (due to various people away in
Frascati at EU DataGrid and GGF3 mtg.)
PMB Action List 01/10/01
Action List
-----------
ONGOING...
1.11 PC & DB to determine which project management tools to be used
2.6 RB to track options via InterGrid from application point of view
3.2 PC, NB, RB + EB to define experimental requirements
3.8 NG to provide details of Oversight Board timetable
3.10 DB to assess current financial commitments prior to request for
transfer of up to 200k (total) via RAL SLA for travel this year
4.1 TD to set up the PMB web pages
4.2 NB to set up the EB web pages
4.5 RB to table a 1-page to InterGrid on BaBar interest
4.7 RPM to formulate guidance on costs of sending person to CERN on
LTA. Some examples would be useful. Agree with Ken Peach and
circulate to PMB (Les would use this information to inform
potential applicants).
4.9 JCG to prepare the advert in the EU Journal.
4.12 RPM to circulate a paragraph for submission to next DataGrid
PMB on UK position on Globus support.
4.13 SLL to send to AstroGrid a list of the GridPP working group
contacts.
4.14 ALL - Each PMB member should prepare a presentation on the
issues they see confronting GridPP over the coming few months.
NEW...
5.1 JCG and LR to discuss CERN hardware purchase.
5.2 LR to circulate document on CERN staffing requirements from GridPP.
DONE during meeting
5.3 LR to circulate URL of CERN posts advert and job descriptions.
DONE during meeting
5.4 PC to appoint deputy
5.5 RPM to report on current status of EU funded posts
5.6 JCG to estimate manpower needs for Tier 1/A centre
5.7 PC to come up with a list of names for TB
5.8 NIG to pass costings of the current allocated post to DB
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