There is little of the 'romantic hero' in the sagas that I can see!  Which
ones do you mean?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Rudd <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 10 September 2001 21:01
Subject: Re: New sub: the Domesday Hedge


> You could however make a case for the romantics capturing the spirit of
the
> sagas, the adverturing of the romantic hero (Lyrical Ballads 1798, just
18th
> century in time, though not in spirit!)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vera Rich <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: New sub: the Domesday Hedge
>
>
> > A kenning works on the principle
> >
> > as          A is to B
> >
> > so         C is to D
> >
> >
> >
> > and then you put A and D   together, to form a 'kenning' describing C
> >
> >
> > To take a few familiar  modern examples.
> >
> > As a ship (A) is to the sea(B)
> >
> > So is a camel (C) to the desert (D)
> >
> >
> > Hence one calls a camel   (C) a   'ship of the desert'.(AD)
> >
> >
> > As blood (A) is to an (ordinary) body (B)
> >
> > So rum (C) was to Nelson (D)
> >
> >
> > Hence rum (C) is called 'Nelson's blood'. (AD)
> >
> >
> >
> > As Venice (built on an archipelago) (A) is to the south of Europe (B)
> >
> > so Stockholm (built on an archipelago)(C) is to the north of Europe D)
> >
> >
> > Hecne Stockholm (C) is called 'Venice of the North'
> >
> >
> >
> > As a (maritime) pilot (A) is to a harbour (B) (i.e. he helps bring you
> there
> > safely)
> >
> > So a clergyman (C) is to heaven (D)
> >
> >
> > Hence a clergyman (C) (in nautical slang) is called a sky-pilot (AD)
> >
> >
> > Likewise,  any expressions using the name of a writer or artist in one
> > culture to describe a writer or artist in another is an implied kenning
> >
> > Thus if you call Mickiewicz the 'Polish Virgil', you imply the
parallelism
> >
> > As Virgil [A} wrote the patriotic epic of Rome [B]
> >
> > So Mickiewicz [C] wrote the patriotic epic of Poland  [D]
> >
> >
> > 'Snail mail' is not a kenning, because one does not have the cross-over
it
> > is a simple parallelism:
> >
> >
> > 'As a snail [A] is to  [something quick-B]],
> >
> > so is  hard-copy post[C] to e-mail.{D}
> >
> > Linking A and C does not make a kenning!
> >
> >
> >
> > Kennings appear to be indigenous to all early Germanic literatures.
And -
> > although datings are for the most part difficult,  most Old English
poetry
> > would appear to be significantly older than Old Norse (Icelandic).
> >
> > The eighteenth century knew very little about Old English - or indeed
any
> > early Germanic poetry - see, for example, Gibbon's disparaging remarks
> about
> > the lost Gothic lays of Ermanaric. Transcription and publication of the
> > texts was mainly a 19th century phenomenon  - and some poetic texts were
> not
> > properly edited and published until the 20th.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bob Cooper <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: 10 September 2001 01:04
> > Subject: Re: New sub: the Domesday Hedge
> >
> >
> > > Hi (again) Steve,
> > > Yeh, I'm thinking all the more about this poem and how it relates to
> > poetry.
> > > I can see (and smell/and hear/and touch) the hedge you've given me in
> the
> > > poem you've written very clearly. If you're wanting to get right back
to
> > the
> > > Domesday ordering of England (and so bypassing the 18th Century's
> > > pastoralia) then the alliteration/assonance/consonance features of the
> > poems
> > > construction and presentation comes to the fore. And the words you use
> > sound
> > > so juicy!
> > >
> > > I enjoyed the kennings too (but my Tardis seems to have malfunctioned
a
> > > little because I put them into Northern English and Norse literature
> (and
> > > then only associated them with Iceland at the time of the Domesday
> > Survey).
> > > Maybe I should have remembered the Vikings wandered all over and that,
> > later
> > > on, Beowulf's writer uses them too! Does anyone (else, apart from
> Steve -
> > > and translators) use them today?. Is "snail mail" a kenning?
> > >
> > > And Joanna's made me wonder, too, what regard the 18th Century poets
had
> > for
> > > Anglo Saxon poetry. I've sort of assumed they had a classical
> appreciation
> > > of poetry (that linked in with their architecture and art) and their
> > > references to Greek and Roman myths were ways of linking with their
> notion
> > > of what had been written in the past. But I don't really know... The
> > poetry
> > > canon has always been tightly controlled (and spasmodically objected
to
> > and
> > > revised). If I only read what those who set the syllabus wanted me to
> read
> > I
> > > would never know what's possible and glimpseable and graspable with
> poems.
> > > So, like with the hedge, it's back to the roots!
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Steve Rudd <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >Reply-To: The Pennine Poetry Works <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >Subject: New sub: the Domesday Hedge
> > > >Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 00:04:15 +0100
> > > >
> > > >This is about a hedge near our office. I doubt it really is a
Domesday
> > > >Hedge (though there ARE some, in the English Landscape), it's
probably
> > > >about 18th century, but it just seemed a good metaphor for the way a
> lot
> > of
> > > >things have been changed this year. Apologies if you knew this
already
> > but
> > > >the "Bishop's Terrier" mentioned, is an ecclesiastical land survey
> > (Terrare
> > > >= land) not a holier-than-thou Jack Russell. Pity.
> > > >The Domesday Hedge
> > > >
> > > >Nine hundred and fifteen is the age of the hedge
> > > >
> > > >Numbered by nine hundred winters' blast,
> > > >
> > > >By those same summers, sap-fed:
> > > >
> > > >It has been storm-tossed, wind-ruffled, rain-drenched,
> > > >
> > > >With its white webs autumn-dancing with dew:
> > > >
> > > >And mouse and shrew scampering beneath, squeak and patter,
> > > >
> > > >Feet rustling the years past, their poor small bones
> > > >
> > > >Becoming lost white patterns on leaf-mould
> > > >
> > > >Dappling the meadow paddock each autumn
> > > >
> > > >As the wind moans and the Keck nods its Queen Anne Lace
> > > >
> > > >Over strip, ridge and furrow, over the dun fallows watched by owls,
> > > >
> > > >Where Ealdormen rode the lanes to the whale-road,
> > > >
> > > >Counting your yards and furlongs, marking plough turns and headlands.
> > > >
> > > >While branches swung, heavy with dawn-birds, your lines were
> > > >
> > > >Enumerated by Thanes, grain-boundaries scratched on vellum,
> > > >
> > > >Demesned and enclosed, sake, soc, and quitrent,
> > > >
> > > >Rogation-beaten, part of the Bishop's Terrier,
> > > >
> > > >Boxing fields tilled by Shires with chestnut-buffed tackle.
> > > >
> > > >Bordered by lost generations of cow-parsley,
> > > >
> > > >Michelmas, Candlemas, Plough-Mondayed, and moon-wintered.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >* * *
> > > >
> > > >How many more Springs, I wonder, will we see
> > > >
> > > >You quarter the field of vert proper, its fleurs-de-lys green-laid
> > > >
> > > >With your traceried escutcheon; now that a new plague
> > > >
> > > >Blackens your land, and shepherds pipe a bitter eclogue?
> > > >
> > > >And has the Norman's misnomer come home to roost at last, come true,
> > > >
> > > >As the smoke rises over silent byres, over dung still body-warm,
> > > >
> > > >And you become less of a hedge, an edge, and more anachronism?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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