But that is what poetry is about. You record the 'little selves'
as you progress through life, then years later you can look back
on them.
Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask]
Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html
On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, david.bircumshaw wrote:
> > Death is nothing to be afraid of when you are there.
>
> Paradoxically, Doug, I could agree with that. The matter in the original
> post was about the little deaths, of those selfs we were, and astonishedly
> find we are no more so, but , too, I would be reserved about a
> recommendation of utter demise to anyone, what's left of common-sense says
> to me it's a condition people are not too keen on.
>
>
> Best
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> David Bircumshaw
>
> Leicester, England
>
> Home Page
>
> A Chide's Alphabet
>
> Painting Without Numbers
>
> www.paintstuff.20m.com/index.htm
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douglas Clark" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 10:47 PM
> Subject: Re: FW: AI's Elegies
>
>
> > I havent been following this conversation but I would note
> > that I almost died in Intensive Care from MRSA a few years
> > ago. My recollection of my mind at the time was that I wasnt
> > frightened at all. I was just floating away in a very relaxed
> > manner and at peace with myself. The doctors had written me
> > off but by some miracle I recovered. Death is nothing to be
> > afraid of when you are there.
> >
> >
> >
> > Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask]
> > Lynx: Poetry from Bath ..........
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html
> >
> > On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, david.bircumshaw wrote:
> >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > indeed, this is a tricky subject. My impression was, and I say this
> partly
> > > on the basis that the listee sent the post in question b-c to me last
> > > Saturday, as he couldn't get through, was that he was talking about the
> > > impact of that notion as a new idea, which, one must admit, is an
> > > uncomfortable thought.
> > >
> > > Now whatever philosophical sophistications I might pretend to, I must
> > > concede that, at the moment of death, however much I search for
> appropriate
> > > references, if conscious, I might well be terrified out of my mind,
> despite
> > > my theories of the self.
> > >
> > > My ramshackle musings wander about ideas of this being like so
> 'objectively'
> > > but not so 'experientially'. They are very threadbare thoughts though.
> > >
> > > Anyhow, I don't want to get 'heavy' about a very heavy subject, enuff
> now
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > David Bircumshaw
> > >
> > > Leicester, England
> > >
> > > Home Page
> > >
> > > A Chide's Alphabet
> > >
> > > Painting Without Numbers
> > >
> > > www.paintstuff.20m.com/index.htm
> > >
> > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Martin J. Walker" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 6:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: FW: AI's Elegies
> > >
> > >
> > > > These are very knotty questions which are not as simple as saying "the
> > > self
> > > > is an illusion, amen." For Heidegger, as I understand it, Being (das
> Sein)
> > > > is indefinable by being-there (Dasein), which all persons have in
> common:
> > > > their selves are constituted by that community & their language (based
> on
> > > > understanding,Verstehen, plus Rede, speech), both of which also imply
> the
> > > > project (Entwurf) & the care (Sorge), the latter comprehending the
> past &
> > > > present as the condition & the future as the field of self-realization
> > > which
> > > > must end in death, thus my dread (Angst) until I affirm death as my
> most
> > > > real possibility, thus devaluing in a sense all the projects etc of
> > > > Being-there & attaining authentic existence, though Being is always
> > > far-off.
> > > > The transcendent Self of the Upanishads is actually closer to Being
> than
> > > > Being-there, thus only a logical step forward (and a lot of
> meditation)
> > > was
> > > > necessary for Gautama to realize _sambodhi_ as the illumination that
> > > > transcends the object-subject of normal consciousness: this results in
> > > > _nirvana_, in which the distinctions of the normal self have vanished.
> > > > Thus in both philosophies the normal self is something to be
> transcended
> > > as
> > > > not finally constitutive of Being, but it is hardly a simple illusion.
> > > > Heidegger would presumably frown on any belief in survival after
> death as
> > > > inauthentic.
> > > > I can't understand why you find the implications of non-self <a bit
> > > scary>,
> > > > as death (nothingness) will relieve you of your self in any case, a
> much
> > > > scarier consideration I would have thought; I myself shall be quite
> happy
> > > to
> > > > wander around the Bardo or various reincarnations before being
> relieved of
> > > > self, if death is not the end. Amen.
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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