this is counter- rhetoric which does not see that my point is exactly yours
, if you extend the metaphor of the ghost to yourself and your own life and
you do not set your mind to come towards dialogue and communication.
I am quite fed up of this rhetoric of the conflict that is at the base of
all misunderstanding and incomprehension's.
there is a clear will here and everywhere to pervert people's view actions
beliefs rights perspectives hopes needs and so on... this negative will is
from both sides, as always, as in the orthodoxy of all conflicts.
you do not teach me what humanitarism is, Martin, I come from a deeply
humanitarian and less hypocritical culture that you think, Martin.
  I was thought at school how to doubt of yours as well as of my own words
and beliefs. I was not even forced to be convinced and manipulated by
Christ's words coming through the mouth of corrupted Catholics, as they
happen to be in their own right....., imagine if yours can move me to such
an empty rhetorical exercise which is exactly what we are all doing here and
now.

Do not speak about screaming children, do not ct as the Pope or the skilled
politicians do in times of crisis, by lifting in their arms the weeping
children of the dispossessed country they visit by getting there with a
Concord. Just go to Afghanistan to help, I repeat, the Red cross is always
asking for volunteers.
Do not mention mutilations to oppose me. See that my speech, in a different
style, is yours (only the simple minded would think otherwise): we are all
mutilated by this horror.

physically, spiritually and culturally, for ever. Enough with this. History
is repeating itself, cant' you see it? Where is the trans-national rational
mind that would equally distribute wealth and possibilities to all humans,
where is the communist utopia?
It is ended in crumbs in our pockets.

----- Original Message -----
From: Martin J. Walker <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: R: Re: Afghanistan


> Perhaps it is worth pointing out (on the subject of "symbolism") that the
> screams of children everywhere, now,(spoken of so pertinently by Dominic)
> express but are not for themselves >symbolic< of dreadful fear of
mutilation
> & death: they are not yet (while they scream) "the ghosts of themselves"
> though perhaps "lifting distressful hands as if to bless"; but there _is_
a
> lot of very symbolic gesticulation going on, some of it on this list. I
> think heartfelt response would be more appropriate than threatening to dig
> an SKK rifle out of the garden to "shoot back" at a few local extremists
or
> than throwing terms like "crucifixion" around rather wildly, as Robin
points
> out. Marx himself, of course, wasn't above (or below?) gesticulating
> symbolically & frothing at the mouth, poor misunderstood genius. The
trouble
> is that the gestures, the blarings of the politicians and attendant
"media"
> are an accompaniment to actual horrors: drums & cymbals,war music that
> paradoxically causes forgetting of what is & has been happening. I don't
> think that even hoping for a later more peaceful species to replace us, or
> reflection on the bad manners of the dinosaurs, should or (better) can
> distract us from the pain of living now, though I do understand the
symbolic
> despair of your words, Erminia. But why do you so easily assume that
nobody
> has ever achieved "something different" & speak only of failure? This is
> close to idolizing History, which "to the defeated/May say Alas but cannot
> help or pardon".
> best
> Martin


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