JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2001

POETRYETC 2001

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Erminia's naughty bits

From:

Douglas Clark <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:45:12 +0100

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (118 lines)

I was puzzling how to answer you so I'll do it with a 1983 poem.
Love has nothing to do with words, it is a meeting of eyes. I think
I try to capture that here. I have so many love poems I dont know
where to choose from, but my instinct chose this one.

A poem is a packet of intelligence which unwraps on the tongue.
There was never anybody who understood love better than Shakespeare.
But Dante was the real thing. And Petrarch. I think this idea of
love came from the Arabs through Sicily. It is the true one.
Now for the pub.



Feasting


I am the shape-maker
electing out of the murmuring voices
assonance and rhythm.
I weave from the singularity of love
triptychs of before and after.
The constant spell amazes me
as I fashion this glottal sympathy.
Never to look back and say it was.
Never to look forward and repeat the question.
It was there in the moonlight
as I brushed a tear from your cheek,
Your eyes lit by Paradise,
as you asked yourself where the rainbow lay.
The lost years of youth burn brightest
in the elation of your calm intelligence;
Absurd before and after.
Trapped together for eternity
by an absence of words,
The eyes, making a mockery of language
at the feast of the soul.
You, so pretty.


Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask]
Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Erminia H. Passannanti wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:37:16 +0100, Douglas Clark <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >Poetry is about making connections. THe transcendental connection
> >is love. So romantic love is fundamentally sexual. Seems to be.
> >You have to add some quality of language into the recipe.
> >
> >
> >
> >Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask]
> >Lynx: Poetry from Bath ..........
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html
>
> Romantic love...and sexual reliance…I wonder whether one is ever loved
> in the way one wishes to be loved and for what one is. I have the feeling
> one is the projection of another person’s set criteria. One is found and
> selected according to pre-existing regulations of the mind. One at the end
> is never really seen for what one is. One might add that what one really is
> never certain. Or maybe parents, if one is lucky, can see one as one is.
>
> I am thinking of a way to reply to you, Douglas, with a question.
> Shakespeare's treatment of Andrea Bandello's story of Romeo and Juliet of
> Verona
> has certainly established a strong oppositional link between the extremist
> way Italians conceive love ( as a collective experience, in history and in
> society , especially through theatre, and the equally extremist way
> English people have developed their ardent conceptions of love and passions
> in their best genre, the novel, as a typically more private ground. These
> two ways do complete each other in Shakespeare’s tragedy. The sexual-
> romantical private
> constituents, I think, were somehow not predominant in Bandello’s story
> which was based on
> a kind sociologically didactical issue of one would regulate marriage in
> society and in politic.
> In fact Bandello's story of the two families was already quoted by Dante
> Alighieri in the VI Cantos (verse 106) (Purgatorio) and subjected to the
> political ethos. And Luigi Da Porto recalls the same plot in
> 1524 for a short story which lately was developed by Matteo Bandello into a
> novel. The content of the novel, which in the Bandello’s version was still
> very much informed of political significance for it aimed at being staged
> at the Court of Isabella D’Este, was very shortly adopted by Arthur Brooke
> in 1562, transferred on the English ground only three years before
> Shakespeare rewrote it in his own style and from his own stunning
> perspective of love and passion which incorporated the historical and
> political issue but giving prevalence to the herotic.
>
>
> When one reads Dante's verse or Matteo Bandello’s story one is amazed how
> less focused on
> the actual love and sexual attraction between the two young noble children
> of Verona the topic is. In the tradition of Dante's political writing, the
> disastrous love and sexual magnetism related about by
> Bandello was still there mainly to stress the political.
>
> For your surprise , this is how Arthur Brooke prefaced his poemetto about
> Romeo and Juliet in 1562, turning the political into the sexual (a
> sexuality to be loathed and castigated but neverthless given great
> predominance). His introduction reads:
>
> “And to this ende (good Reader) is this tragicall matter written, to
> describe unto thee a coople of vnfortunate louers, thralling themselues to
> vnhonest desire, neglecting the authoritie and advice of parents and
> frendes, conferring their principall counsels with dronken gossyppes, and
> superstitious friers (the naturally fitte instrumentes of vnchastitie)
> attemptyng all aduentures of peryll, for thattaynyng of their wished lust,
> vsing auriculer confession (the kay of whoredome, and treason) for
> furtheraunce of theyr purpose, abusyng the honorable name of lawefull
> mariage, the cloke the shame of stolne contractes, finallye, by all meanes
> of vnhonest lyfe, hastyng to most unhappye deathe.”
>
> Therefore, the lesson is : one should marry an Italian, but have a British
> as a lustful lover.
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager