JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2001

POETRYETC 2001

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

we, we, we... all the way home

From:

[log in to unmask]

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:57:43 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (122 lines)

From: fshck@UMAC on 09/04/2001 11:57 AM



I'm sorry to come late to this discussion, having been in Hong Kong for the
weekend... but for any who are not yet totally burned out with the pronouns...

I think this we question really crystallises some of the biggest ethical
problems facing writers across a range of genres today...

speaking/writing to and with unavoidably involves speaking/writing for and
worse, over, others

let's face it (oops, that was a we hiding under apostrophe) ...choice is limited
on the pronoun front ... one has to speak from somewhere, pretend to be familiar
or familial or aloof or authoritative or whatever, conceal such pretensions,
etc...


i personally don't want to have any less choices than i have at the moment

thinking more of the essay than the poem i think
we is in the difficult necessity category
to be problematised yes - yes - lovely bureaucratic word problematise
(bring this one back when it's been properly problematised will you)
problematised but not ruled out
if only because that ruling out could only be the prerogative of another
invisible we ... for instance the canonising we engaged in the sacred duty of
deciding what a poem can and cannot be

... some earlier thoughts on the subject...

In an interview in 1984 titled "Polemics, Politics, and Problematization" Michel
Foucault says:

     I do not appeal to any "we" ? to any of those "we's" whose consensus,
whose values, whose traditions constitute the framework for a thought and
define the conditions in which it can be validated. But the problem is,
precisely, to decide if it is actually suitable to place oneself within a "we"
in order to assert the principles one recognises and the values one accepts;
or if it is not, rather, necessary to make the future formation of a "we"
possible, by elaborating the question.

It may well be asked whether one, as a writer, gets out of the process of
identification (with readers) so easily. As Jean-François Lyotard writes: "We
are in fact always under some influence or other; we have always already been
told something, and we have always already been spoken. We are weak and the
gods exist because we didn't win" .

     We has become a taboo pronoun in scholarly discourse because it has come to
suggest a universalist and imperial subjectivity, one which (like the royal
plural) takes the reader-subject under wing and without bothering with the
trouble of arguing for this privilege. The problem with foregoing the use of
this pronoun is that such a strategy may achieve nothing but the concealment of
the imperial motive which lies in the moment of identification of writer and
reader. Such an identification is elided in favour of a harder to challenge,
often agentless, passivity, characterised by the use of the "dummy-it": It is
widely acknowledged... In these terms common sense, by means of an absence of
modality, delivers a certain world as if it were ours ever-thus.

     The we problem does not go away by saying we less or even by the act of
positing the self as never part of a collectivity. Such strategies fail because
we each of us are members of all sorts of insistently spoken collectivities, the
most notable (and least obvious) of which is language. The dialogism of speech
points to the reality that words arise in the fact of a perpetual exchange. The
forbidden pronoun points us in the direction of a forbidden and utopic state:
community; that state which ironically is among us as the pre-condition of our
words.

     Scholarly enquiry is neither the accidental result of a failure to act nor
yet the effort of a lonely enquirer bereft of the guidance of others. There is
an insistent identification underlying such projects, that of we the readers,
whose community may even be principally antagonistic, who may be uncomfortable
with even this identification; but who nevertheless have in common the fact of
having read thus far. It can be said that the use of we now, a marked use, as
an awkwardness of style has recovered the virtue of demonstrating an effort at
identification, and thus precisely offers a place where such identifications can
be challenged. To adopt we as a specific strategy by which terms of
identification are made transparent and tested was perhaps the effort made by
Burliuk, Kruchenyk, Mayakovsky and Khebnikov in their manifesto: "A Slap in the
Face of Public Taste":

     We alone are the face of our time. Through us the horn of time blows in
the art of the world...
     We order that poets' rights be revered...
     To stand on the rock of the word "we" amidst the sea of boos and outrage.

*

     The other side of the inclusion which the identification we assumes, is the
exclusion a reader feels when s/he cannot go along with what is expressed under
this aegis. In these circumstances s/he is alerted to a differend, to use
Lyotard's coinage, such as is suggested in the observation that "a universal
rule of judgement between heterogeneous genres is lacking in general" . Lyotard
defines the differend as "the unstable state and instant of language wherein
something which must be put into phrases cannot yet be". As such we may regard
it as what lies between the communities which are implied in a speech
intelligible to its participants. Lyotard claims that society is inhabited by
differends. He writes that:

     there is a differend between two parties when the "settlement" of the
conflict that opposes them appears in the idiom of one of them while the tort
from which the other suffers cannot signify itself in the idiom.

That situation, I would argue, obtains wherever a law is the possession of
particular parties. Poetry, in such a circumstance, because it subjects its own
language to the exigencies of a position between languages, plays a role akin to
that of bearing witness to differends.

...just a thought we had when out tidying the kingdom
once upon each other

Christopher Kelen,
English Dept, University of Macau,
Taipa, Macao SAR, CHINA






Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager