I'm all for skin in poetry - both as a major organ of sense - and something
that connects the interior and exterior worlds. In fact I'd say that most of
my favourite poets seem to have a thinner skin than other people.

It seems to me though that poets use all sorts of strange and bizarre tricks
in order to get under their own skin, and all kinds of technical refinements
to help it get under other's skin.

I'd bar nothing if it works.

bw

Helen
----- Original Message -----
From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: cant is all bunk isn't it?


> I'm sorry, but I have a violent antipathy to all this: if you write, you
use
> your own skin, not computer programs, nor thesauri, nor most definitely
> rhyming dictionaries. Nor assontantal wordbanks. Writing comes from one's
> own contingency, it is not a matter for calculation in a field of others,
> anyone who relies on such aids shouldn't be claiming to be there in the
> first place.
>
> david bircumshaw
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: neville attkins <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 11:27 AM
> Subject: cant is all bunk isn't it?
>
>
> > Thank you for the book suggestions, I shall hunt them
> > out, but
> >
> > cant is all bunk isn't it?
> >
> > its just set up by dictionary makers as the container
> > for words spoken by tramps, theives, prostitutes and
> > literary types. Into the cant tank all sorts of stuff
> > gets put, for example the OED is as likely to say that
> > a word is 'cant' as its origin is obscure. My reason
> > for choosing the OED was that it it not necessarily an
> > honest representation, also the words were just so
> > toothsome they sort of wrote themselves, probably
> > evident from my poetiking.
> >
> > I liked P.Howard's cant poem very much it had penny
> > dreadful quality about it, the smut content
> > practically drowned the ship by the end.
> >
> > I have a number of questions:
> >
> > Do any of you out there use computers in the process
> > of literary creation? I don't mean necessarily word
> > processors, but what about tools like GREP or PERL, I
> > have had various levels of success with same I
> > wondered what anyone elses luck was?
> >
> > Also in talking about the OED have you used in on CD,
> > is it just me that finds it incredibly annoying to
> > use? does anyone know how to do clever reverse
> > engineering type things on it? I know this is faintly
> > illegal but the interface is so provoking it can't be
> > borne.
> >
> > Lastly have any of you used Wordnet with the tree walk
> > software? If you haven't I suggest a visit to
> > www.wordnet.com it is free!
> > where you will find the most wonderful tool for
> > composition. Give it a word and it will provide
> > hypernyms holonyms Meronyms, coordinates and so forth.
> > To give an example from the word 'clipper ship'
> > hypernyms: conveyance, vehicle, craft etc
> > hyponyms: cutty sark, mary rose etc
> > meronyms: helm,mast,hull etc
> > holonyms: fleet etc
> > coordinates: bark,brig,cutter,galleon.
> >
> > A wonderful thing put together at Princeton.
> >
> > This time in keeping with my belief that the following
> > of tricky rules brings out something not gettable at
> > any other way another poem. I have found pairs of
> > words such that by removing the letter 'a' at the
> > beginning creates a new word: so averse is good
> > because it gives two not necessarily related words
> > 'verse' and 'averse' but 'amoral' is less good because
> > 'amoral' and 'moral' are rather boringly related. Well
> > anyway here it is:
> >
> > One A1 big girl Abigail
> >
> > A capital city, a Georgian terrace,
> > And Acid Sid's abyss
> > biz assets' set up
> > basement abasements, mounts for amounts
> >
> > with atom tom 'Abby',leggy
> > allegory, with vice advisors
> > Abbot B-b-b-b-bots
> > and abacus Bacchus as a-a-a-a-countants .
> >
> > for Amen Bra man Abraham
> > Abby was Abigail or 'Big Gail'
> > for big Arab Rabi,
> > acerbic whore abhorring Serbians
> >
> > queued butts abutting
> > for at cost accosting,
> > got to grow on cue
> > from cussing in agro argot
> >
> > like Chillian Che the SS ass men,
> > genital agents the flayed
> > affraid affluent and fluent
> > all had for this miss amiss an Achilles ache.
> >
> > But though adept with debt, maxing
> > on the Amex, and attack tax
> > Abby got her costly rear
> > accosted in arrears with Mitty amities
> >
> > The trophy of the atrophy was podgy
> > apology Lisa alias Alibi Libby
> > with tricks attic the lass alas tole
> > stole Abby's accustomed custom
> >
> > When auntie 'Untie' Abe's aid and maid
> > alighted on the lights,
> > And Abe's Doberman,
> > Over the abdomen (able peers
> >
> > appeared, to arrange peals of bells
> > to appeal the amassed masses
> > to mass.) Auntie untie
> > called the adjusted justice
> >
> > who called for a bag for the bag.
> > Abby from topsy
> > to autopsy had been a tom
> > now she's ashes atoms.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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