>>>>As to their inability to stand on one side or the other, to either be
> >>  loyal to their country and President or admit that they stand against
> >>  it and him, which is based on a denial of a wrong and a right when it
> >  > comes to making a decision

Not my country, not my President, nor that of the majority of the members of
this list.

>>>   I, of course, support the kind of dialectical inquiry which you see
> >>  conducted most ably by me here to root out those who are inclined to
> >>  the Radicalism which leads to Terrorism.
> >>

If, Richard, this means that your presence here is part of that wish 'to
root out' well as far as I'm concerned you shouldn't be here. If you have
any interest in the ostensible subjects of this list, now I think would be a
very diplomatic moment to start expressing them.

Incidentally, on a point of language, how do you manage to conflate
liberalism and Marxism?


David Bircumshaw

Leicester, England

A Chide's Alphabet
www.chidesplay.8m.com

Painting Without Numbers
www.paintstuff.20m.com/default.htm
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/default.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Dillon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 11:18 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Ugly. Isn't it? Into the breach, RadLib Marxists Unite!


> >
> >
> >
> >>  Candice:
> >>
> >>>   Radical Liberalism leads inevitably to the exact opposite of its
> >>>  stated intent. <  (Quinn's First Law).
> >>
> >  > Notice how Carlo *conflates* fears, lies, distortions, paranoias,
> >  > projections.  Supposedly, it is the Right Wing which is filled with
> >>  conspiracy theory and the madness of crowds.  Here among those who
> >>  see themselves as the sanest of the sane, judges of millions of
> >>  others, we see what can only be termed Radical Reactionary
> >>  Factionalism.  Carlo does not know that late polls indicate that 71%
> >>  of the African Americans not only stand with President Bush and the
> >>  Republican Administration but that they support Racial Profiling to
> >>  root out the Terrorists.
> >>
> >>  I, of course, support the kind of dialectical inquiry which you see
> >>  conducted most ably by me here to root out those who are inclined to
> >>  the Radicalism which leads to Terrorism.
> >>
> >>  As to their inability to stand on one side or the other, to either be
> >>  loyal to their country and President or admit that they stand against
> >>  it and him, which is based on a denial of a wrong and a right when it
> >  > comes to making a decision.
> >
>
> >For instance, one can only assume that when a _pretty girl_ is shot
> >>  in the head in the open field by El Binzer in the name of Allah,
> >>  RadLib intellectuals who happen to be in situ would try to negotiate
> >>  a cease fire from the enlightenment of their superior analysis of the
> >>  human condition.  Such RadLIb analysis by Carlo, Weiss,  A.K. Hollow,
> >>  et al., would inevitably lead to the conclusion that El Binzer and
> >>  his ghoul army is under the remote control of President Bush, Prime
> >>  Minister Blair, and Lone Star Republican Poet, Richard Dillon.
> >  >
> >  >ot the pin!
> >  >
> >>  Richard
>
>
>         As to Carlo's arrogant assumption, mind reading again, about
> Republicans being Racist -- well, there is a way into his team's own
> presumptive Racist politics, but let's just let it abide a while.
>
> >  >
> >>
> >>
> >>>  Carlo wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>   The only segment of the American population that does not support
the
> >>>>   current belligerence is African Americans. (Native Americans
probably
> >>>>   have not been canvassed.) The reasons for this is obvious. The kind
of
> >>>>   racism that Dillon embodies toward the Middle East is inflicted
upon
> >>>>   African Americans daily. I live in a predominantly African American
> >>>>   community, in part, so that I can be around people with the sanity
and
> >>>>   wisdom that comes from tremendous continual suffering.
> >>>
> >>>      The claim in your first sentence is false. I find it
irresponsible as
> >>>  well, as I find unconscionable your use of the very real sufferings
of US
> >>>  blacks in this self-serving way.
> >>>
> >>>  The opposition to the war being waged against Afghanistan emerged
well
> >>>  before yesterday, so I'm sure you know how unequivocally it cuts
across
> >>>  color lines and many other lines (age, gender, class, occupation,
> >>>education,
> >>>  etc.).
> >>>
> >>>  As for the lack of "independence of mind" you lament below, one of
the few
> >>>  people demonstrating that here is Richard Dillon. I don't agree with
or
> >>>  endorse his political views in this instance, but I'd go to the
> >>>wall--if any
> >>>  are left (pun intended)--for his right to express them and for the
good it
> >>>  does me to hear them from the place I occupy by virtue of my own
views.
> >>>  Anyone whose beliefs are too fragile to withstand his challenges is
equally
> >>>  free to remain deaf to them by means of a filter. Maybe it would
> >>>be good for
> >>>  Richard to have his views challenged in their own right rather than
being
> >>>  subjected to name-calling and other childish personal attacks, which
never
> >>>  change anyone's mind--except about the character of the name-caller,
who
> >>>  gains nothing by such moves and stands to lose respect instead.
> >>>
> >>>  Time we all grew up, wouldn't you agree?
> >>>
> >>>  Candice
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>   One of the crucial lessons you can glean from Dillon and the poles
is
> >>>>   that in America participatory democracy of necessity must remain a
> >  >>>  fraud. Secondly, that for all the talk of former Soviet propaganda
> >>>>   networks, the U.S. domestic network is second to none. After all
Edward
> >>>>   Bernays' public relations served as the model for Nazi Germany.
> >>>>   American's dependence on their elites is virtually total--no
> >>>>  "independence of mind" as de Tocqueville discerned. Americans would
be
> >>>>   helpless without this social contract by which all authority
resides in
> >>>>   the few in proportion to all responsibility being bartered away for
> >>>>   consumption by the many. As long as the actuarials tilt toward a
> >>>>   relatively unvictimized archetypal white majority class in the
material
> >>>>   care of the elites, nothing will change here, and since America is
an
> >>>>   economic and military empire change for those abroad will have to
be of
> >>>>   a violent nature or not occur at all. In fact, U.S. domestic and
foreign
> >>>>  hegemony and its material expression, like gasoline at $1.50 a
gallon,
> >>>>  will get only fractionally worse for everyman while they continue to
get
> >>>>  exponentially better for the elites e.g. those who sell gasoline,
which
> >>>>   is to say they will get for worse for the poor and reach
eschatological
> >>>>   proportions for the environment.
> >>
>
>
> --
>