Besides the Popol Vuh translation, there is another excellent Tedlock volume
of Mayan myth retold, _Breath On The Mirror: Mythic Voices & Visions of the
Living Maya_ (Harper 1993), very worthwhile the detour.
________________________________________________________________
Pierre Joris "Let me tell you about Florida politicians. I make them out of
6 Madison Place whole cloth, just like a tailor makes a suit. I get their
name in the
Albany NY 12202 newspaper.I get them some publicity and get them on the
ballot.
Tel: (518) 426-0433 Then after the election, we count the votes. And if
they don’t turn
Fax: (518) 426-3722 out right we recount them. And recount them again. Until
they do.”
Email: joris@ albany.edu - Edward G. Robinson in Key Largo.
Url: <http://www.albany.edu/~joris>
____________________________________________________________________________
_
-----Original Message-----
From: British Poets [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Mark Weiss
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Close Listening
Sorry. The recent tenor of things has me a little jumpy, but I'll take a
tranquilizer.
I've met Denis a couple of times and took him for a hike in our local
desert. He's a better anthropologist than hiker, and a major figure in
Mayan studies. I've heard some demurs about his Popol Vuh, but it's I think
the most readable in English. It's one of only a very small handful--three
or four--texts not carved in stone or baked into ceramics to have survived
the Jesuit fires. Mayan cities, those of the Quiché included, are amazingly
complex and elegant--metropolitan--and it's hard not to mourn the loss.
Mark
At 12:27 AM 2/24/2001 -0000, david.bircumshaw wrote:
>Mark
>
>"one" as in "Denis Tedlock" is entirely my doing, as the excerpt is a
>mixture of paraphrase and my comments that I sent to someone recently and
>just felt an itch to put upfront, simply as I have this concern that
>something about the tenor of things 'ere stops me putting forth nine-tenths
>of what I actually ponder, feel, etc.
>
>The anthology dates from 1998 and although I haven't noticed dates for
>individual essays the most recent citation in Tedlock is 1997.
>
>I, though, certainly didn't know Tedlock's background, as the resources I
>have here, and the time and energy I have left over from my full-time job
> I work in a call-centre, which leaves me fucked half the time) are
somewhat
>meagre.
>
>best
>
>david
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>
>To: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>;
><[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 11:58 PM
>Subject: Re: Close Listening
>
>
>> A nice excerpt, but the "one Dennis Tedlock" does seem strange, as he's
in
>> the anthropology department of Bernstein's university, was coeditor with
>> Jerry Rothenberg of Alcheringa, the central periodical of ethnopoetics,
>> published widely in journals in which Bernstein has also published, was
>> with his wife editor of American Anthropologist, and has published his
own
>> translation of the Popol Vuh (there are, I think, four translations into
>> English and several in Spanish, which are widely read in Mexico and
>Central
>> America).
>>
>> Is this a very old essay?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> At 09:50 PM 2/23/2001 -0000, david.bircumshaw wrote:
>> >I've been leafing through an Bernstein's 'Close Listening' and like the
>> >following,
>> >no doubt this terain will be familiar to some, for which I beg patience,
>but
>> >others...
>> >
>> >and no doubt to there are those who could correct my little wit of
>this...
>> >
>> >but I'm fed up of not-saying, of negative air on the list....
>> >
>> >A study of Mayan poetics called, 'Towards a Poetics of Polyphony and
>> >Translatability' , by one Dennis Tedlock, and written in a very odd
>English,
>> >the sort that is peppered with academe and clumsy attempts at
originality
>of
>> >phrase, that can very easily disinterest a reader, however, he does know
>his
>> >Mayans.
>> >The piece develops out of an account of Mayan work preserved by the
>Spanish
>> >in a sixtenth century transliteration, hence written in 'our' alphabet
>but
>> >in Mayan or 'QuichE' (shd be an accent on the 'e'). A work called 'Popol
>> >Vuh' or 'Council Book', from the Guatemalan highlands.
>> >It is a book of lessons on poetry which takes the form of a story of how
>the
>> >gods prepared the world for human beings and how human beings might have
>> >developed, illustrated by hypothetical poems for humans at different
>stages
>> >of development.
>> >>From the onset the gods wanted human beings who could speak to them
>(yes, we
>> >were born to, from, talk) but their expectations were also poetic. But
>they
>> >didn't want to hear complete sentences so much as phrases or words in
>> >parallel pairs. when they made the animals each species made a different
>> >sound but repeated the cry without variation. After four attempts the
>gods
>> >succeeded and humans appeared, four of them. When the gods ask them to
>talk,
>> >they get a poem in reply;
>> >
>> >Qitzij chik truly now
>> >
>> >kamul k'amo double thanks
>> >oxmul k'amo triple thanks
>> >
>> >mixojwinaqirik we've been formed
>> >mi pu xojchi'nik and we have mouths
>> >xojwachinik we have faces
>> >
>> >kojch'awik we speak
>> >we listen we listen
>> >kojta'onik we wonder
>> >kojsilab'ik we move
>> >
>> >thus far, the author says: 'there are rhythms here, but they are
>temporary
>> >rhythms created by alignments of syntax and meaning.... rhymes, too, in
>the
>> >broad sense... but again aligned with syntax and meaning ... the effect
>is
>> >to foreground the parts of the parallel lines that _do not_ rhyme (I
like
>> >that) '
>> >
>> >The first sentence is not yet over:
>> >
>> >utz kaqana'o our thinking is good
>> >
>> >xketamaj naj naqaj we have the knowledge of the far and
near
>> >mi pu xqilo nim ch'utin and we've seen the great and the small
>> >
>> >upa kaj in the sky
>> >upa ulew on the earth
>> >
>> >fr'inst ' mi' is the perfect aspect, 'pu' a conjunction'., then the verb
>> >followed by 'nim ch'utin' - ' great small' which itself links with 'naj
>> >naqaj' in the line before/above which is ' far near'. Does it start to
>come
>> >across? And how the monostich pegs, builds, holds up the whole, the line
>> >carrying the non-isometric rhythms. I'm very into this. It accords with
>my
>> >own
>> >experience of how poems happen, stand.
>> >
>> >The gods are alarmed and cloud the understanding of humans, so, reduced
>to
>> >mortals who can only communicate with the gods at a distance, they are
>left
>> >to the desperation of prayer.
>> >After a long time wandering in darkness, humans regain some of their
>> >understanding, becoming dreamers and diviners, learning how to use
>> >'instruments for seeing' such as crystals. Or books.
>> >
>> >
>> >david bircumshaw
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
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