Donald A. Duncan wrote:
>
> pgreenhi wrote:
> >
> > Thanks again all!
> >
> > Barre, the Vermont text if it's the same one that's in the Flanders
> > Collection is one she says is based on a rewritten poem--and if this
> > doesn't absolutely clinch it, I don't know what would: it has quoted
> > quoted speech in the Flanders collection version. WAY too much embedding
> > for ballad sense, it seems to me (though others may have examples with
> > better credentials from oral tradition). I can send you the reference if
> > you want it.
> >
> > I also found a book (again don't have the reference here, but if you're
> > interested I could get it from work) in which "Reynardine" is discussed
> > as "son of Reynard"--from the Reynard the Fox text.
>
> A couple of points. We can be certain the basic song was in circulation
> about 200 years ago from the period broadsides I quoted. They were not,
> however called Renardine; the name in the one I quoted was Randal Rine
> (assumed by the editor to be Ryan).
>
> So my first question is: What's the oldest reference known to the title
> "Renardine"? That's certainly within the normal range of phonetic
> modifications resulting from not recognizing what you're hearing; it
> might have no real origin relating in any way to the French.
>
> My second question is: Can we find a literary or musical source around
> the end of the 18th or early 19th century which could have triggered the
> apparent interest suggested by multiple broadside printings? The
> broadside version seems to me more like a reworking of a sung song than
> a distribution of a printed source.
>
> -Don
Answers to some of those questions were given in my first post on this
subject, but it seems that my previous note was not explict
enough for all to comprehend.
The 'Randal Rhine/Rine' broadsides are not close to the origin of
the folk song. These lack the euphemistic 'kiss' (sexual
intercourse), as does Sigerson's rewritten text. In these there
is no point to the warning to maids at the end, which is why it
looks mysterious. But what folk song version stems from these
expurgated texts?
With that euphemistic 'kiss' are the "Mountains High" broadsides
in the Bodleian Ballads collection on the web, Firth c.18(378)
[mostly unreadable, but contains the 'kiss'. At the end the name
seems to be 'Reynard'], and Harding B.25(1273), 'Rynadine'. These
agree as to the 'kiss' with the few full traditional texts I've
seen, [Belden-Missouri, Mackenzie-Nova Scotia, and Thomas-Devil's
Ditties] and the meaning of the warning to maids in the concluding
verses is then obvious.
G. M. Laws, Jr. in 'American Balladry from British Broadsides'
P15, "Rinordine", summarizes the ballad starting with - 'A man
makes love to a girl he meets by chance in the mountains'. Laws
was under no illusion as to what that 'kiss' meant. 'Kissing' is
a very old, but subtle, euphemism for sexual intercourse, and
it's real meaning is often overlooked, but see the 'kissing'
songs in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website.
Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
Motto: Keep it up; muddling through always works.
|