JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for BALLADS Archives


BALLADS Archives

BALLADS Archives


BALLADS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

BALLADS Home

BALLADS Home

BALLADS  2001

BALLADS 2001

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: More Reynardine

From:

Barre Toelken <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

News and discussion relevant to the study of popular / folk / traditional b <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:34:37 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (49 lines)

Weighing in on Reynardine:  I've always been intrigued by
the fact that the -ine suffix is usually feminine in French,
so this would put an interesting spin on the gender issues
in the song (unless the word form is still another English
"rendering" of a French pronunciation); but a colleague more
competent in French than I tells me that it can also be a
diminutive ending, thus, "Little Reynard." Some other
possibilities (go to the older French dictionaries for
earlier discussions of Re(y)nard; the possibilities are
quite fascinating): the name may come from the French verb
renarder, to trick (which does seem appropriate here). Of
course, the verb may reflect the tradition of the fox, too,
as in English "to fox" or "out-fox" someone.

Tactically, within the song: if R is indeed a nobleman with
a castle, why would he need to cajole his victim into not
talking? He could do anything he wants to. So I assume that
he's not a lord, but rather someone who may have access to
the castle and is lying about himself. "Renard" is also used
in the early French trades as a jargon for journeyman
carpenter, and Maitre Reynard was often used to indicate
"master of the keep."  We may never solve it completely, but
the whole song seems to me to be mainly about subterfuge and
seduction, not moral warning. And the ending verse about
shunning bad company is either an add-on (which you've
already suggested) or else an ironic aspect of the
subterfuge (blame the victim of the seduction--well, that's
not a new one anyway, is it?). She's not described as
keeping bad company or having rowdy ways--quite the
contrary.  But it does look like the standard trope of a
woman alone ("out and away" from  social safety, as Renwick
might observe)  interpreted (by a male) as an open
invitation to dalliance.

The only version of the song I know, apparently from
Vermont (but I learned it from Joe Hickerson and not from
fieldwork), feels very awkward in my mouth--that is, unlike
the traditional songs I know, this one features odd
word-order inversions of the sort one  finds in ballads
composed for the reading eye, not for hearing and singing
performances. To me, this suggests that it's not of great
antiquity, and therefore all of our speculation about how it
fits in one older tradition or another may be off the
subject.

Regards to all,

Barre Toelken

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
September 2023
August 2022
July 2022
January 2022
November 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
February 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
May 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
September 2019
August 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
February 2019
January 2019
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
December 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
May 2017
April 2017
October 2016
May 2016
October 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
July 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
January 2014
June 2013
May 2013
March 2013
September 2012
June 2012
April 2012
March 2012
July 2011
May 2011
January 2011
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
July 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
July 2007
June 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager