Mark. it is indeed a good choice this poem by Lezama
Lima, "Thoughts in Havana"
since it does contain plenty of the elements I was
underlying in my previous definition of the
neo-baroque: an emphasis on life turned into a
museum, the theme of the spiritual decadence and the
issue of the spiritual rebirth, the idea of the mask
(as in baroque use of personas), the stress put on the
"souls" claims, and so on (all to be found also in
what I write to a certain extent, don't you think?
expecially in my series "Mystics").
I am sure it is easier for those who belong to a
Catholic tradition to recognize or feel attraction for
the baroque, in its use of the fantastic, the
grotesque, as in the Italian Cinquecento and in the
European Xvii th century arts. But most of all,
neo-baroque is the use of allegories, as stressed by
Walter Benjamin in his The Baroque Drama (Il dramma
Barocco). Benjamin was in fact an appreciators and a
fore-runners of the present tendencies. So Franco
Fortini (a great translator of Milton's Paradise Lost,
and Goethe's Faust, two baroque works "per
eccellenza").
The neo baroque is exactly that attraction for the
expressionist use of the pomp, the will to shock and
provoke wonder, the taste for the subtleties and the
paradox strangely coexisting with the need for order
and harmony(which honestly are all to be found in what
I write, for a precise plan I have in mind).
Also you can consider neo-baroque some kind of
male-transsexual performances (which I can myself
avoid being as I am already a woman) , along with the
will to over-stress the subjectivity to transcend it,
to go beyond its codes, to dramatize the human
condition and the presence in the human being of
ridiculous and yet exquisite elements of the
divine....in my opinion arts tends now towards this
style, inevitably, for their energetic tension
towards the spectacular, the taste for high contrasts
and for the kitsch, as I previously said...(>
neo-baroque is the rediscovery, exaltation and
re-evaluation of the kitsch, it is the attribution to
its codes of a scheme of values and the
re-activation of them in the contemporaneity, it is
believing in the power of the false, the artefact as
being more meaningful of the true. This roughly:
Helton John crying at the funeral of Versace is
neo-baroque,
this superficially already gives an example), to
have a museum of the false (as in my town, Salerno)
is
baroquesque...Tate Modern in London is
neo-baroque in its delayed effects of the
media...German neo-idealism is a form itself of the
neo-baroque...performative
arts when too self-conscious are
neo-baroque...what neo-baroque is not is the strenuous
claim for authenticity, for the self, for
psychoanalysis...and so on...neo-baroque is when in a
society poetry, arts,
music become more powerful than the effects produced
by the industry and by the values connected to working
class struggle...the neo-baroque is in itself a
parody
of the baroque so it has as well critical potentials
since it reveals its on tools and aims having
antecedents,,, and so on,... but I am making
myself ready to go to a party, and I will have to be
there in half an hour: I would gladly retake the
conversation when I come back home later. Neo-baroque
is also politically incorrect since it stresses
contrasts and
exploits them (neo-baroque is when art makes the
world, as it is almost the case now, not
viceversa).
The mannerism of our daily communications with
their fake language and false aims is neo-baroque, so
we are on the right path. Erminia (Passannanti) : )
-----------
--- Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Here are two very brief examples of Lezama Lima.
> ...
> Mark
>
>
> Thoughts in Havana
>
> Because I inhabit a sigh like a sail,
> a land where ice is a memory,
> the fire can't hoist a bird
> and burn it in a conversation of complacent style.
> Although this style doesn't dictate a sob
> and a tenuous leap allows me a grumpy life,
> I don't have to acknowledge the useless progress
> of a mask floating I could not know where,
> where I could not know to transport the stonecutter
> or the latch
> to museums where assassins are wrapped
> while visitors point at the squirrel
> which with its tail is arranging the stockings.
> If an anterior style shakes the tree,
> it decides the sob of two strands of hair and
> exclaims:
> _my soul is not in an ashtray!_
>
>
> The Seven Allegories
>
> The first allegory
> is the pig with teeth of stars,
> the teeth fly to their sky of low clouds,
> the pig exults laughing at its splitting.
> Into ham, into laconic questions.
>
>
> At 03:45 PM 9/9/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >Apropos this assertion:
> >
> >At 12:12 PM -0700 9/9/01, Mark Weiss wrote:
> >> Your use of the term, and your own
> >>poetry, seem not at all related.
> >
> >
> >Please provide a few illustrations of why her
> poetry is not baroque?
> >If "baroque" implies all sorts of florid excesses
> and fantastic
> >affects, well, Erminia's giantess would seem to
> qualify. Doesn't the
> >dance of the Latin world pride itself for its
> posturing and its elan
> >and its stamping around and its dash and frenzies?
> When Erminia
> >shares and instructs that
> >
> >At 11:35 AM -0700 9/9/01, erminia wrote:
> >>neo-baroque is when in a society poetry, arts,
> >>music become more poweful than the effects
> produced
> >>by the industry and by the values connected to
> working
> >>class struggle.
> >
> >
> >She is coming through with some real smart
> observations here. Poetry
> >is not born by the recultivation of some past
> literary movement, as
> >you seem to imply she claims she is doing in order
> to validate her
> >work. No. Erminia sees the majic unrealities as
> they manifest,
> >i.e., Elton John at Versace's funeral. She left
> out Princess Di's
> >synchronistical contribution to the whole baroque
> sequence of fated
> >accretions but she is astute in her wakefulness
> nonetheless.
> >
> >I for one read ALL of the Poet Erminia's
> contributions.
> >
> >RD
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Erminia: Terms are of limited use, but even within
> those limitations this
> >>is a bit confusing. The term neo-baroque was
> invented, I think, by the
> >>great Cuban poet José Lezama Lima in the late 30s
> and is very much current
> >>in Latin America. So much so that when José Kozer,
> one of the best-known
> >>(in the Spanish-speaking world) of contemporary
> Cuban poets, identifies
> >>himself as neo-baroque he expects folks to have a
> vague idea where that
> >>places him in the spectrum of possible practices.
> When his name came up in
> >>conversation in Tijuana, which is a different
> planet from Cuba, there was a
> >>general murmer of "ah, neobaroco." Your use of the
> term, and your own
> >>poetry, seem not at all related. Is this a new
> coinage of an old term?
> >>
> >>Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>At 11:35 AM 9/9/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >>>Dear Douglas,
> >>>
> >>>neo-baroque is the rediscovery, exaltation and
> >>>re-evaluation of the kitsch, it is the
> attribution to
> >>>its codes of a scheme of values and the
> re-activation
> >>>of them in the contemporaneity, it is believing
> in the
> >>>poewer of the false, the artefact as being more
> >>>meaningful of the true. This raghly: Helton John
> >>>crying at the funeral of Versace is neo-baroque,
> >>>(this superficially already gives an example), to
> have
> >>>a museum of the false (as in my town, Salerno) is
> >>>baroquesque...Tate Modern in London is
> neo-baroque in
> >>>its delayed effects of the media...German
> neo-idealism
> >>>is a form itself of the
> neo-baroque...performative
> >>>arts when too self-conscious are
> neo-baroque...what
> >>>neo-baroque is not is the strenuous claim for
> >>>autenticity, for the self, for
> psychoanalysis...and so
> >>>on...neo-baroque is when in a society poetry,
> arts,
> >>>music become more poweful than the effects
> produced
> >>>by the industry and by the values connected to
> working
> >>>class struggle...the neo-baroque is in itself a
> parody
> >>>of the baroque so it has as well critical
> potentials
> >>>since it reveals its on tools and aims having
> >>>antecedents,,, and so on,... but I am making
> myself
> >>>ready to go to a party, and I will have to be
> there in
> >>>half an hour: I would gladly retake the
> conversation
> >>>when I come back home later. Neo-baroque is also
> >>>politically incorrect since it stresses contrssts
> and
> >>>exploits them (neo-baroque is when art makes the
> >>>world, as it is almost the case now, not
> viceversa).
> >>>The mannerism of our daily communications with
> their
> >>>fake language and false aims is neo-baroque, so
> we are
> >>>on the right path.
> >>>
> >>>Erminia (Passannanti) :
> >>>
> >>>--- Douglas Clark <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>> Come on ERminia explain neo-baroque! At four
> this
>
=== message truncated ===
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