This brief note from Brian Czech might be of interest to some of the
list members. fyi. Jim
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Status: U
From: "Brian Czech" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] (James A Tantillo)
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 06:00:02 +0800
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Aldo's conversion
That sounds like an interesting discussion on Leopold. I’ve been
using a Leopold quote in recent lectures as part of the ethical
platform of the steady state revolution. It was the second-from-last
sentence he had published (in the preface to Sand County Almanac):
“our bigger-and-better society is now like a hypochondriac, so
obsessed with its own economic health as to have lost the capacity to
remain healthy. The whole world is so greedy for more bathtubs that
it has lost the stability necessary to build them, or even to turn
off the tap. Nothing could be more salutary at this stage than a
little healthy contempt for a plethora of material blessings.”
A little healthy contempt – that’s what the castigation of the
liquidating class by the steady state class (the social phase of the
steady state revolution) is all about!
I’m also using the quote in an upcoming article, “The Wildlife
Society, the World Trade Center, and the Conservation Ethic”, in
press at Wildlife Society Bulletin.
See you,
Brian
P.S. Feel free to pass this on to the listserver if you want. Let
me know what comes of it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Tantillo <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:04:22 -0500
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Fwd: Re: Aldo's conversion
> Hi Brian, thought the following would be of interest to you, a pretty
> good conversation about Leopold at the moment and your name came up.
> fyi. Hope you are well.
> Jim Tantillo
>
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> Status: U
> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> Importance: Normal
> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 07:45:35 -0700
> Reply-To: "Discussion forum for environmental ethics."
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: "Discussion forum for environmental ethics."
> <[log in to unmask]>
> From: Steven Bissell <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Aldo's conversion
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Leopold's distaste for Forest Service policy on a number of issues was well
> known during his life time. However, it must be remembered that for the most
> part Leopold was acting, and thinking, based on the best scientific
> knowledge available at that time. Too often I've seen people treat Leopold
> more as a prophet than a rational philosopher. His ideas, especially in SCA,
> were based on his understanding of evolution and ecology.
>
> Much the same applies today in government programs dealing with natural
> resource management. It really makes little difference what you feel about
> resource utilization, it's what you can show with hard data. Even then the
> decisions are made in a political atmosphere, and too many scientists feel
> that sticking their hands in policy will dirty them. It has only been in
> recent years that good scientists (and I'm speaking of the so-called 'hard'
> sciences) have turned their attention to policy formulation. For example I
> think that some of the stuff by Tim Clarke and Brian Czech about endangered
> species policy is really a good example of biologists taking a hard look at
> public policy from a political point of view.
>
> I'm not sure about this, but Leopold, to the best of my knowledge, did not
> publish anything about policy after _Game Management_. And in GM he only
> took a passing swipe at it. However, during the 1940s he served as a
> Wildlife Commissioner, so he was involved in policy formulation. If anyone
> on the list knows of anything he might have written during this time about
> policy, I'd like to know. He may have written privately about it, but I've
> never seen anything.
>
> Steven
>
> In the final analysis one should think only
> of one single science: the science of man,
> or, more exactly expressed, social science,
> of which our own existence constitutes at
> once the principle and the purpose and in
> which the rational study of the external
> world naturally comes to merge, for this
> double reason that the science of nature is
> a necessary constituent of and a basic
> preamble to social science.
>
> Auguste Comte
> Discourses, 1884
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion forum for environmental ethics.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Chiaviello, Anthony
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 4:00 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Aldo's conversion
>
>
> Well, who knows what's in another's heart? The more important point you make
> is that Leopold possibly felt unable to express his opposition to official
> policy (sound familiar?). I have seen that in young USFS rangers who say
> that once they get their years in and they can't be fired, then they will
> act on changing the policy. Unfortunately, events have proven over and over
> that by the time the individual has those years in, he has internalized the
> official policy and it is no longer in his interest to rock the boat.
> Maybe the same applied in Aldo's case and he was able to overcome
> his reticence.
> -Tc
> Anthony R. S. Chiaviello, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor, Professional Writing
> Department of English
> University of Houston-Downtown
> One Main Street
> Houston, TX 77002-0001
> 713.221.8520 / 713.868.3979
> "Question Reality"
>
> > ----------
> > From: Steven Bissell[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 12:44 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: green fire
> >
> > Anthony wrote:
> >
> > The moment was after shooting a she-wolf amid a pack of juveniles, from
> > some
> > distance; Leopold goes down and checks on his kill to find the wolf near
> > death, but not quite dead: this fierce greenness was still evident in the
> > wolf's eyes and went slowly out, fading and losing its color. He was so
> > affected by the experience that he immediately questioned the program of
> > wolf extermination and shortly became an advocate of "balance," which as
> > we
> > have already discussed, has been supplanted by a notion of dynamism in
> > natural processes.
> >
> >
> > Bissell here: Actually the incident of shooting the wolf took place early
> > in
> > Leopold's career. He states that it was from this point that he began to
> > question predator control, but he actually still endorsed it for several
> > decades. Along with the perceived need to control wild fire, this was an
> > issue that Leopold took a long time to change his initial ideas, or at
> > least
> > to publicly express them. This could have been a political decision on
> > Leopold's part, both predator control and fire suppression were (and to
> > some
> > extent still are) sacred cows in the US Forest Service, Dept. of
> > Agriculture, and US Fish and Wildlife Service.
> >
> > I suppose there is something to the idea that SCA was Leopold's attempt to
> > put all his most radical ideas into one format. I think that it's
> > interesting that Leopold is still a figure of mixed feelings in the US
> > Forest Service. A couple of years ago I saw, in print, the statement from
> > a
> > senior Forest Service administrator that Leopold's "ideas were like
> > herpes;
> > impossible to get rid of.
> >
> > Steven
> >
> > "Our human ecology is that of a rare species of mammal in a social,
> > omnivorous niche. Our demography is one of a slow-breeding, large,
> > intelligent primate. To shatter our population structure, to become
> > abundant
> > in the way of rodents, not only destroys our ecological relations with the
> > rest of nature, it sets the stage for our mass insanity."
> > Paul Shepard
> >
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> --
>
> ----
> Jim Tantillo
> Department of Natural Resources
> 8-A Fernow Hall
> Cornell University
> Ithaca, NY 14853
> Phone: 607-255-0704
> FAX: 607-255-0349
> email: [log in to unmask]
> http://www.dnr.cornell.edu/facstf/tantillo.htm
>
>
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