Ahhh, next you'll be denying that you as good as called Richard a racist.
Come on, Carlo, this neoliberal softshoe is unworthy of you, man. You've
always seemed of the truth-and-justice AS the-American-way school--and to
have defended it with the heart and vocal power of a lion up to now. (And
when did you start believing what you read in the newspaper?)
Sorry if I seem to be going jingo on you, but you seem to have gone
Manifestly Western Destiny on me!
Candice
> Candice. Don't kill the messenger. I was just reporting what was printed in a
> Washington Post/Newsweek pole e.g. only 27 % of African Americans supported
> retaliation in fact the only group surveyed to fall into that category. If you
> are claiming that the Post/Newsweek pole is "false" for example propaganda, I
> have no problem with that. But don't go jingo on me.
>
> I very clearly was not referring to "independence of mind" as regards the very
> limtied correspondence on this list but again transmitting an observation of
> Alexis de Tocqueville's which many commentators on American culture have
> addressed and which I find extremely pragmatic. Whether Dillon expresses views
> or demonstrates any real independence of thought, is, itself, a subject of
> open
> to debate among those with the discernment to do so. CP
>
> Candice Ward wrote:
>
>> Carlo wrote:
>>>
>>> The only segment of the American population that does not support the
>>> current belligerence is African Americans. (Native Americans probably
>>> have not been canvassed.) The reasons for this is obvious. The kind of
>>> racism that Dillon embodies toward the Middle East is inflicted upon
>>> African Americans daily. I live in a predominantly African American
>>> community, in part, so that I can be around people with the sanity and
>>> wisdom that comes from tremendous continual suffering.
>>
>> The claim in your first sentence is false. I find it irresponsible as
>> well, as I find unconscionable your use of the very real sufferings of US
>> blacks in this self-serving way.
>>
>> The opposition to the war being waged against Afghanistan emerged well
>> before yesterday, so I'm sure you know how unequivocally it cuts across
>> color lines and many other lines (age, gender, class, occupation, education,
>> etc.).
>>
>> As for the lack of "independence of mind" you lament below, one of the few
>> people demonstrating that here is Richard Dillon. I don't agree with or
>> endorse his political views in this instance, but I'd go to the wall--if any
>> are left (pun intended)--for his right to express them and for the good it
>> does me to hear them from the place I occupy by virtue of my own views.
>> Anyone whose beliefs are too fragile to withstand his challenges is equally
>> free to remain deaf to them by means of a filter. Maybe it would be good for
>> Richard to have his views challenged in their own right rather than being
>> subjected to name-calling and other childish personal attacks, which never
>> change anyone's mind--except about the character of the name-caller, who
>> gains nothing by such moves and stands to lose respect instead.
>>
>> Time we all grew up, wouldn't you agree?
>>
>> Candice
>>
>>> One of the crucial lessons you can glean from Dillon and the poles is
>>> that in America participatory democracy of necessity must remain a
>>> fraud. Secondly, that for all the talk of former Soviet propaganda
>>> networks, the U.S. domestic network is second to none. After all Edward
>>> Bernays' public relations served as the model for Nazi Germany.
>>> American's dependence on their elites is virtually total--no
>>> "independence of mind" as de Tocqueville discerned. Americans would be
>>> helpless without this social contract by which all authority resides in
>>> the few in proportion to all responsibility being bartered away for
>>> consumption by the many. As long as the actuarials tilt toward a
>>> relatively unvictimized archetypal white majority class in the material
>>> care of the elites, nothing will change here, and since America is an
>>> economic and military empire change for those abroad will have to be of
>>> a violent nature or not occur at all. In fact, U.S. domestic and foreign
>>> hegemony and its material expression, like gasoline at $1.50 a gallon,
>>> will get only fractionally worse for everyman while they continue to get
>>> exponentially better for the elites e.g. those who sell gasoline, which
>>> is to say they will get for worse for the poor and reach eschatological
>>> proportions for the environment.
>
>
>
> Candice Ward wrote:
>
>> Carlo wrote:
>>>
>>> The only segment of the American population that does not support the
>>> current belligerence is African Americans. (Native Americans probably
>>> have not been canvassed.) The reasons for this is obvious. The kind of
>>> racism that Dillon embodies toward the Middle East is inflicted upon
>>> African Americans daily. I live in a predominantly African American
>>> community, in part, so that I can be around people with the sanity and
>>> wisdom that comes from tremendous continual suffering.
>>
>> The claim in your first sentence is false. I find it irresponsible as
>> well, as I find unconscionable your use of the very real sufferings of US
>> blacks in this self-serving way.
>>
>> The opposition to the war being waged against Afghanistan emerged well
>> before yesterday, so I'm sure you know how unequivocally it cuts across
>> color lines and many other lines (age, gender, class, occupation, education,
>> etc.).
>>
>> As for the lack of "independence of mind" you lament below, one of the few
>> people demonstrating that here is Richard Dillon. I don't agree with or
>> endorse his political views in this instance, but I'd go to the wall--if any
>> are left (pun intended)--for his right to express them and for the good it
>> does me to hear them from the place I occupy by virtue of my own views.
>> Anyone whose beliefs are too fragile to withstand his challenges is equally
>> free to remain deaf to them by means of a filter. Maybe it would be good for
>> Richard to have his views challenged in their own right rather than being
>> subjected to name-calling and other childish personal attacks, which never
>> change anyone's mind--except about the character of the name-caller, who
>> gains nothing by such moves and stands to lose respect instead.
>>
>> Time we all grew up, wouldn't you agree?
>>
>> Candice
>>
>>> One of the crucial lessons you can glean from Dillon and the poles is
>>> that in America participatory democracy of necessity must remain a
>>> fraud. Secondly, that for all the talk of former Soviet propaganda
>>> networks, the U.S. domestic network is second to none. After all Edward
>>> Bernays' public relations served as the model for Nazi Germany.
>>> American's dependence on their elites is virtually total--no
>>> "independence of mind" as de Tocqueville discerned. Americans would be
>>> helpless without this social contract by which all authority resides in
>>> the few in proportion to all responsibility being bartered away for
>>> consumption by the many. As long as the actuarials tilt toward a
>>> relatively unvictimized archetypal white majority class in the material
>>> care of the elites, nothing will change here, and since America is an
>>> economic and military empire change for those abroad will have to be of
>>> a violent nature or not occur at all. In fact, U.S. domestic and foreign
>>> hegemony and its material expression, like gasoline at $1.50 a gallon,
>>> will get only fractionally worse for everyman while they continue to get
>>> exponentially better for the elites e.g. those who sell gasoline, which
>>> is to say they will get for worse for the poor and reach eschatological
>>> proportions for the environment.
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