Michael,
Thanx for the advice. This lady is a very good friend of mine, and I always
explain to her what I am doing. She understood that everybody require
different setting for the Likon, and it is a matter of trial and error to
get the right settings for her. I have a manual, but there isn't too much in
it to advise you on what to do with a person with active symp. nervous
system. if you or anybody could find something, that would be great.
Henry***
>From: "Michael Warburton" <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Likon
>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:23:19 +1000
>
>Henry wrote:
><The Likon on the other hand is a very powerful machine, however there is
>no
>manual on what the settings mean...I put it on a patient with fibromyalgia
>on Monday...she called me on Tuesday saying that she left on Monday feeling
>drained and very bitchy>
>
>Henry.
>Finding out what the settings mean is usually best done prior to any
>machine's application. At least you then have a starting point should you
>ever end up in court defending an adverse event from the Likon and are
>cross-examined by expert opinion.
>Get a manual from the manufacturer or photocopy one from one of the many
>Likon owners in the City.
>
>Michael Warburton
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Henry Tsao" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 8:17 AM
>Subject: RE: Likon
>
>
> > Kam,
> >
> > I know a research article in the Am J of Rehab Medi. which showed that
>US
> > was as effective as dry needling in combination with stretches to
>deactivate
> > MTrP.
> >
> > IF on the other hand I have found can aggravate and increase the
>activity
>of
> > trigger points in some patients, and hence I am very weary of using this
> > machine. It is my own theory, but I think the IFT was designed to
>shorten
> > the muscles into a more comfortable position, hence reducing the pain
>the
> > patients will feel when they wake up. However, this is only speculation
>on
> > my part. There is no research on the efficacy of IF with deactivating
> > trigger points that I could find.
> >
> > The Likon on the other hand is a very powerful machine. However, there
>is
>no
> > manual on what the settings mean (because I have a second hand one... a
>new
> > machine costs $1000!!). I put it on a patient with fibromyalgia on
>Monday,
> > and she called me on Tuesday saying that she left on Monday feeling
>drained
> > and very "bitchy!" This has never happened before until I tried the
>Likon
>on
> > Monday. I believe the Likon activated her psoas or sympathetic nevous
> > system, and hence increased her anxiety and emotion. Can anybody help??
> >
> > Henry***
> >
> >
> > >From: Kam-wah Mak <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> > >To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>,
> > >"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >Subject: RE: Likon
> > >Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:27:18 +0100
> > >
> > >Hi Henry,
> > >
> > >Have you come across combination therapy (using US and IF together) for
>the
> > >deactivation of trigger points?
> > >
> > >Again, claims made by manufacturers but no substantiation from
>published
> > >research / articles (to my knowledge), unless list members can provide
>more
> > >information on this.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Kam
> > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Henry Tsao [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > >Sent: 23 October 2000 15:30
> > > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >Subject: Re: Likon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >To Sarah and Kam-wah,
> > > >
> > > >Personally, it was very difficult to find a good Likon Machine
> > > >in Brisbane,
> > > >because from what I have been told, many large companies don't
> > > >make this
> > > >machine anymore. Since I work with trigger points, the last
> > > >thing I need is
> > > >for a machine such as the interferential to tighten up the
> > > >muscles again.
> > > >Therefore, I think this is why my boss prefers to use the
> > > >Likon. I have not
> > > >found any recent research or articles on the Likon, but if
> > > >anybody know
> > > >anything about this machine, please let me know!!
> > > >
> > > >Henry***
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>From: Kam-wah Mak <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >>To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>,
> > > >>"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >>Subject: Likon
> > > >>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:55:09 +0100
> > > >>
> > > >>Hi Sarah,
> > > >>
> > > >>Likon is a concept that was developed in China by Professor
> > > >Jiang Xiao Wen
> > > >>in the 1970's and a machine was launched worldwhile by
> > > >Healthtronics Pte
> > > >>Limited in Singapore in 1987.
> > > >>
> > > >>Likon is described by the operation manual as 'Modulation
> > > >Electro Therapy
> > > >>(MET), it generates mid frequency 2KHz to 5 KHz that are
> > > >modulated by a low
> > > >>frequency current ranging from 5 to 100 Hz. The mid frequency
> > > >acts as a
> > > >>carried wave, 'carrying' the low frequency pulses deep into
> > > >the tissues.
> > > >>Unlike IF therapy which utilises 2 medium frequency waves to
> > > >produce a low
> > > >>frequency 'beat' at their intersection. Likon generates mid
> > > >frequency waves
> > > >>that are modulated by low frequency pulses, thus combining the
> > > >>characteristics and advantage of mid and low frequency
> > > >stimulation via a
> > > >>single output.
> > > >>
> > > >>The list of applications was long ranging from musculoskeletal to
> > > >>neurological conditions.
> > > >>
> > > >>The above was deduced from the machine manual.
> > > >>
> > > >>In reality, to my knowledge, there are no published paper on
> > > >the Likon. I
> > > >>have seen a few articles on Likons but these were confined to
> > > >undergraduate
> > > >>dissertations in the early 1990's. I have seen Likons in
> > > >action at my local
> > > >>hospitals, yes, they are around and it seems that there are
> > > >pockets of epa
> > > >>community in UK that 'swear' by the efficacy of this modality.
> > > >>
> > > >>Anyone who uses this modality would like to further comment on this.
> > > >>
> > > >>Regards,
> > > >>Kam
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >-----Original Message-----
> > > >> >From: Sarah Fern Striffler [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > >> >Sent: 20 October 2000 06:45
> > > >> >To: [log in to unmask]
> > > >> >Subject: Re: THE ELECTROTHERAPY ISSUE
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Dear Henry,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >What is Likon & now is it used for psoas?
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Thank you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Sarah Fern Striffler, PT
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Henry Tsao wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> To Mr Cheng, Bruce, and others who are interested in this
> > > >> >contraversial
> > > >> >> field of electrotherapy:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I have been following the debate recently between the EPA
> > > >> >and Bruce, and
> > > >> >> since I started this whole contraversial debate, I thought I
> > > >> >might go and
> > > >> >> have a look a the latest literature on electrotherapy. I
> > > >> >don't believe in
> > > >> >> personal attacks, and think that physiotherapists should be
> > > >> >able to make up
> > > >> >> their minds on the issue.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Before I go on, I will just explain. I work in a busy
> > > >> >private practice where
> > > >> >> we allocate 30 min. roughly per patient. I do use US on
> > > >> >trigger points after
> > > >> >> acupressure, and Likon on the sympathetic nervous
> > > >> >system/psoas (especially
> > > >> >> in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia patients) to reduce its
> > > >> >activity, but I
> > > >> >> don't use any electro for any other reason unless the
> > > >> >patient themselves
> > > >> >> request it (and let's face it, I get old clients who come in
> > > >> >and just want
> > > >> >> to be mob'ed, US'ed and IFT'ed... and that is their choice!!).
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I found an interesting article the other day in the Pain
> > > >> >journal on the
> > > >> >> effectiveness of ultrasound therapy on musculoskeletal pain
> > > >> >(Pain 81, 1999
> > > >> >> 257-271). It basically evaluated the use of US, and looked
> > > >> >at the existing
> > > >> >> research on the topic. They basically concluded that for lateral
> > > >> >> epicondylitis, soft tissue shoulder disorders, deegn
> > > >> >rheumatic disorders,
> > > >> >> ankle distorsions and TMJ disorders, US showed no
> > > >> >significant clinical
> > > >> >> effect. Even when they combined US with exercise therapy,
> > > >there was
> > > >> >> clinically important or statistically significant
> > > >> >differences in favour of
> > > >> >> US (which I was surprised to read, as we always thought
> > > >that US was
> > > >> >> effective only when it is used as an adjunct!!). Even though
> > > >> >this does not
> > > >> >> totally rule out the uselessness of US therapy, it
> > > >> >definitely has some
> > > >> >> strong gound to stand on!
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On the contrary, I found in the Am J of Physical Medicine
> > > >> >and Rehab(79, 1,
> > > >> >> p48-52, 2000) an article that looked at the use of US, dry
> > > >> >needle, and
> > > >> >> stretches of myofascial trigger points in the Upper Trap
> > > >> >muscles. They found
> > > >> >> that US combined with stretches and dry needle combined with
> > > >> >stretches
> > > >> >> produced significant results compared to simply stretching
> > > >> >alone. However,
> > > >> >> there was no difference between dry needle and the use of US
> > > >> >in combination
> > > >> >> with stretches.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I find it interesting that even though Mr Cheng has noted a
> > > >> >few articles
> > > >> >> that claim to have clinical evidence of electrotherapy,
> > > >most of the
> > > >> >> literature out there disproves the effectiveness of
> > > >> >electrotherapy, and
> > > >> >> these should not be ignored. However, this issue will still
> > > >> >continue to be
> > > >> >> contraversial, the research will go on, and physiotherapists
> > > >> >will form their
> > > >> >> own opinions of what electro to use. Despite this, I
> > > >support Bruce's
> > > >> >> statement that time and cost is a big factor in this, and
> > > >> >should not be
> > > >> >> ignored. Unless we are in the field of sport physio and see
> > > >> >athletes 3x a
> > > >> >> day, 5x a week, I don't see the point of 15min/2x/week - how
> > > >> >much difference
> > > >> >> is it going to make because that is less than 1% of their
> > > >> >week's time!!
> > > >> >> Emphasis in this case should be on teaching the patients
> > > >> >ultimately how to
> > > >> >> look after themselves thus preventing future injury. Most
> > > >> >people want to get
> > > >> >> better, but also want to know how to keep themselves better, and
> > > >> >> electrotherapy does not do this.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Going through an undergraduate degree whereby electrotherapy
> > > >> >was focused so
> > > >> >> much and yet despised by most students(including myself), I
> > > >> >am not for or
> > > >> >> against electrotherapy. However, I believe (and this is only
> > > >> >my opinion)
> > > >> >> that unless there is more research for the efficacy of
> > > >> >electrotherapy, not
> > > >> >> too many future physiotherapists will include it in their
> > > >> >treatment regime.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Henry***
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >From: "Goh Ah Cheng" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> >> >Reply-To: "Goh Ah Cheng" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> >> >To: <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> >> >Subject: Fw: EPA and evidence based practice
> > > >> >> >Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:18:00 +0900
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Dear Fellow EPA and PHYSIO Mail-list members,
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Below is the reply from Bruce. He has chosen to reply to
> > > >> >me directly
> > > >> >> >instead of the list, so I am doing him a favour by
> > > >> >forwarding it to the
> > > >> >> >both
> > > >> >> >lists (It must have been an oversight on his part....
> > > >perhaps due to
> > > >> >> >another
> > > >> >> >hard day at work).
> > > >> >> >You may want to know that I, Panos and the entire academic
> > > >> >community have
> > > >> >> >been dismissed by Bruce as unworthy of providing evidence
> > > >> >for EPA (or any
> > > >> >> >subject for that matter) because WE LEFT THE CLINIC. I am
> > > >> >not even going
> > > >> >> >to
> > > >> >> >respond to this.....
> > > >> >> >Secondly, the scientific method has also been denounced as
>being
> > > >> >> >inappropriate for any discussion on evidence based practice
> > > >> >(I assume not
> > > >> >> >only for EPA, but for our entire base of knowledge!!). Am
> > > >> >I missing out on
> > > >> >> >something here??
> > > >> >> >Thirdly, EPA can be dismissed by all of us from this day
> > > >> >henceforth because
> > > >> >> >it has been around for the past 50 years and the world was
> > > >> >not impressed!!
> > > >> >> >I must have missed out when everyone was out there casting
> > > >> >their votes.
> > > >> >> >Fourthly, God is dead.
> > > >> >> >And finally, any discussion that goes contrary to Bruce's
> > > >> >point of view is
> > > >> >> >immature, incurs opportunity costs and is a waste of
> > > >> >taxpayers dollars.
> > > >> >> >That is the FINAL WORD, according to Bruce, Chapter 4,
> > > >> >Verse Sick (I mean,
> > > >> >> >Six).
> > > >> >> >Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go look for another God.
> > > >> >> >Completey Devastated,
> > > >> >> >Cheng
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >----- Original Message -----
> > > >> >> >From: Bruce Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> >> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >> >> >Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 5:46 PM
> > > >> >> >Subject: Re: EPA and evidence based practice
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > > Hi Gohac
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > On this website, I have found the greatest support for
> > > >> >electrotherapy
> > > >> >> >comes from academics. I have no idea how much clinical
> > > >> >experience they draw
> > > >> >> >on, or why they left the clinic.
> > > >> >> > > These critics, esp yourself and Panos, seem to make a
> > > >> >lot of time to
> > > >> >> >reply
> > > >> >> >with verbose highbrow sarcasm, using one or two papers here
> > > >> >and there to
> > > >> >> >give your point invincible Truth status.
> > > >> >> > > As anyone who has read knows, the scientific method does
> > > >> >not deal in
> > > >> >> >deduced ultimate truths, instead it induces enough evidence
> > > >> >for a consensus
> > > >> >> >to be reached by field peers.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > That electrotherapy has been around for 50 years and not
> > > >> >wowed the world
> > > >> >> >with its superior healing powers let alone drawn together
> > > >> >scientific peer
> > > >> >> >consensus is enough for me to burst the bubble on its
> > > >> >overinflated cult
> > > >> >> >following.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > Let's face it guys, your God is dead.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > And please show some maturity by recognising the
> > > >> >opportunity costs of
> > > >> >> >continuing this argument. Anything I wanted to say has been
> > > >> >said. And I
> > > >> >> >assume the same for yourselves. Let it rest at that, and
> > > >> >get on with doing
> > > >> >> >something more productive with tax payers' dollars.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >>
> > > >>______________________________________________________________
> > > >_________
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now!
> > > >> >> > > http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >>
> > > >>______________________________________________________________
> > > >_________
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >_______________________________________________________________
> > > >> >__________
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> > > >> >
> > > >
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> >
> >
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