Alan,
I have just re-read my message and I just realised that I do apologise rather a
lot. it was not at all patronising to comment, on the contrary it made me think.
Sometimes I think I apologise as an automatic reaction at having displeased (is
this the right word?) someone, regardless of whether I think I am right or not.
I remember that this does come up in some feminist literature, so I don't feel
so alone :-)
Thanks
Alessandra Iantaffi
Alan Simpson wrote:
> Alessandra,
>
> At the risk of being patronising I just want to say that you really don't
> have to keep apologising for addressing something that matters to you (and a
> lot of other people).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Alan Simpson
> Brighton, UK.
>
> >From: Alessandra Iantaffi <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: VR, 'girls' and PC (not computers!)
> >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 08:36:08 +0100
> >
> >I am glad to see that all you men out there have taken no offence at my
> >comments. I apologise about the staying at home comment, it was not meant
> >as
> >disparaging of people who make this choice (especially as I am considering
> >leaving Academia and staying at home myself!), but as a 'teasing' of a
> >stereotype than many people have. Maybe my English is not as good as I
> >thought
> >and I apologise for my lack of sensitivity. I also have no idea what 'Poms'
> >mean. If it mean English, well, I am not. If it means Italians, I am sure
> >that
> >have been called worse things because of my nationality, so I shall take no
> >offence either. It's good to see that you people can take things with
> >humour,
> >especially as I stressed the point that I did not want to offend anybody.
> >By the
> >way 'grown women' was also used in a humorous way. I am sure that is
> >allowed
> >since Australians seem to have a special meaning for the word 'girls'. I
> >shall
> >now retreat to silence once again and leave you boys to play. Ops did I
> >just say
> >that?
> >
> >Respectfully and jokingly,
> >
> >Alessandra Iantaffi
> >
> >p.s. Phil, just one last word. It was very 'big' of you to advocate your
> >'academic expertise' to ridicule me and put me down. But then why am I
> >surprised
> >men have used this technique for centuries :-) No offence. And please feel
> >free
> >to analyse this too.
> >
> >Peter French wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Phil
> > >
> > > Your comments are interesting.
> > >
> > > You have a point but maybe Alexandra's comments may have resulted from
> >her
> > > state as *grown*.
> > >
> > > As I am a rail commuter, I will attempt to find and *ungrown* woman on
> >the
> > > way to the Institute. However I will be missing all of those who *stay
> >at
> > > home*. But then, as you so rightly point out, those who stay at home may
> >be
> > > *staying* but not really *at home*. If I do my research or direct my
> >staff
> > > from my study where is fact am I? This confusion may arise from the fact
> > > that I have been a Distance Education student since 1960 and *home*
> >takes on
> > > many hues, and *staying at* is the basis of success. On the other hand
> >it
> > > may arise from my lack of a liberal education as my undergraduate
> >degrees
> > > are in Accountancy, Industrial Engineering, and Banking & Finance.
> >Retiring
> > > to teaching after 30 years and 2 Masters may also be the cause....
> > >
> > > However one thing does cause me to worry - Alexandra must be the first
> > > woman, who by her own admission and description, would rather be
> >regarded as
> > > older than younger ... the explanation for that escapes me, and my
> >growing
> > > group of amused friends.
> > >
> > > Peter French
> > > Male, 56
> > > Australia
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Carverhill, Phil SDH <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:00 AM
> > > Subject: RE: VR, 'girls' and PC (not computers!)
> > >
> > > > Alessandra . . .
> > > >
> > > > Similar to your critique of Peter's comments, could you not write
> >things
> > > > like this:
> > > >
> > > > Alessandra Iantaffi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >(yes, some grown women do work rather than staying at home)
> > > >
> > > > Could be interpreted with equal lack of sensitivity (and stereotyping)
> >to
> > > > the fact that some women (and men btw) who 'stay at home' do so in
> >order
> > > to
> > > > be primary caregivers to children (is this not work! and very
> >important
> > > > work), or operate a home-based business (e.g., writing, consulting,
> >etc.)
> > > or
> > > > other types of 'work' activities. They may not all be acknowledged by
> >pay
> > > > (depending on the country), but nonetheless (unpaid) work. Being a
> > > > discourse analyst I oriented to your particular choice of language
> >which
> > > > constructed a dichotomy between "work" ("rather than") and "staying at
> > > > home". Some approaches to discourse analysis emphasize language as
> >social
> > > > action, and what we 'do' with our words. Case in point!
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Phil Carverhill
> > > > Canada
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Alessandra Iantaffi [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 7:11 AM
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: VR, 'girls' and PC (not computers!)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At the risk of sounding like a politically correct pain in the neck
> >(which
> > > I
> > > > am,
> > > > by the way :-), could you not write things like this:
> > > >
> > > > Peter French wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I like the 7 pound/hour girls someone mentioned the other day - send
> > > them,
> > > > > to Australia when you are finished :-))
> > > > >
> > > > > Peter French
> > > > > Melbourne, Australia
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, Peter, but it really gets me to see things like that. A) they
> >might
> > > > be
> > > > 'boys' or even grown men and women (yes, some grown women do work
> >rather
> > > > than
> > > > staying at home) B) I find it offensive, as a grown woman, to be
> >referred
> > > to
> > > > as
> > > > a 'girl' (and it does happen more often than I'd like, inspite of a
> >very
> > > > respectable doctorate, a research fellowship and the appearance of
> >some
> > > > white
> > > > hair :). I am sure other do too.
> > > > Again, please don't take it personally, but I just couldn't keep
> >quiet.
> > > >
> > > > Alessandra
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ><< A.Iantaffi.vcf >>
>
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