to all members
Charles is absolutely right. it was never my intention to take up space
with this story. I have been a very quite member for about four months and
I would just like to say that some of the discussions that have arisen have
been totally informative and fascinating. Thank you.>
I will give a very brief explanation of why ..' all women have penis envy'
struck a cord ........I was sexually abused at the age of eleven (by a man)
......I promise you this statement does not apply to me ......having said
this nether do I hate men
I think I was feeling angry, at the comments made and my way of dealing
with anger is black humour, it was very late last night and I think it was a
spontaneous reply rather than a well thought out one. sorry
what I have realised today, is that the facetious remarks that were directed
towards Gerard have probably had a ripple effect and some male members are
probably feeling as attacked and uncomfortable as I felt . TO ALL THE MALE
MEMBERS I DO APOLOGISE IT WAS NEVER MY INTENTION TO INSULT MEN .......just
to make a point that generalisations are not usually helpful.
What I will say is that I have learnt a lot from this discussion ....I have
been looking at myself all day ..........and there is certainly room for
improvement ....so on that point I would take issue with Charles ....if only
myself and Gerard ......stop and pause before we launch into a series of not
very productive comments ....there will be at least two better psychologists
around ....Thank you Gerard
kathrine
>
----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Grefer <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: ADD & ADHD
My only comments to this are, and I am reluctant to reward such behavior
with further commentary, are:
Be careful not to argue with an idiot, people may not be able to distinguish
between the two of you. Second, this thread has shown me how even educated
people can allow themselves to degrade in intellect. I also found offense
in prior comments, but fail to see any productive path to follow from them.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong
Chas
Charles R. Grefer
Counselor,
Coordinator of START & OR
1000 Leroy Road, Loch Sheldrake, NY 12759
Phone: 914 434 5750, ext: 4241
Fax: 914 434 4806
CHANGE: The bend in the road is not the end of the road...
Unless you fail to make the turn!
-----Original Message-----
From: kathrine connolly [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ADD & ADHD
Gerald
'I think you are away with the fairies' 'all women envy the penis ' maybe
it is your story, but then you are a man and lets face it most men like to
believe this myth, the same kind of man that gives their penis a name
..........sorry but what did you expect. This is the kind of comment that
would make any woman, that values her womanhood, want to bite the ankle (or
even the testicles of the man that said this)...Pleassssse, women do not
need to go waving there bits around and accusing the opposite sex of being
jealous of a bodily part. This is not a valid argument or an intelligent
statement, and I sincerely hope you are just a counsellor in training, and
have not been let loose on the general public with such biased views, you
know equal opps etc.
As a single parent of three children, totally unsupported by a penis (cos an
awful lot of penis's have no scrupples) I have brought my children up,
completed a degree in psychology, a diploma in psychodynamic counselling
(yes) and am in the process of struggling with my doctorate...........I can
assure you I do not envy a penis or even resent a penis .............I feel
rather sad for the poor human beings that are attached to a penis, and
worry about the apparently strange connection between the penis and the
brain.
I realise that these comments are exactly what this site is not about. and
I apologise to the other members. I would just like to add that I find your
comments offensive and without validation. I am a feminist, or should I say
a person that believes all people should be equal.............but don't we
all believe this and if we do not then we should. I think Shulamith
Firestone has a valid point in that women will never be equal until the
burden of child bearing is removed from women and it becomes an asexual
process. then it can no longer be used as a guilt trip to control women.
Because child-bearing and the concept of womanhood has been used as a method
of control since the ark.
oh by the way I am now a lesbian, oh I did not start out as one, but after
being beaten up on a regular basis by a thing attached to a penis. I
decided to bat for the other team..........BUT I AM THE
EXCEPTION.........most lesbians are with women because they love women
..........not because they hate men. having said that of my three children
two are boys, and I adore all of them. And I do not envy a penis, because I
am a very attractive woman (kate Bush look alike) . I think the thing that
is so frustrating about such an inane comment like yours is that I cannot
argue about it in any depth, and the bottom line is that my comments are as
shallow as yours ...........and after seven years of working with the
Samaritans, victim support and working in a young offenders prison (category
'A' .....lifers ......male) I do not think I am a shallow person.
apologises to the other members again
KT
----- Original Message -----
From: Helen <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: ADD & ADHD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Helen <[log in to unmask]>
> To: G.F. Phillips <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:34 PM
> Subject: Re: ADD & ADHD
>
>
> > Gerald
> >
> > 'All women envy the Penis' - I resent this statement for a number of
> > reasons. Firstly I wonder how many gay woman would agree with you? Why
> > would a woman envy something that deflates in later life, lets face it
> you
> > only get 2 years use out of a penis (maximum). Also all women are
taught
> > from a very early age that all men only think with their penis, recent
> > statistics show that one in two women prefer chocolate to sex, long live
> the
> > Cadburys flake! It does the same job but tastes a hundred times better.
> > I really do not like lowering myself to this level, however, there was
no
> > need for your statement I feel it was totally uncalled for and was petty
> and
> > pathetic and just like an insecure man to come out with.
> >
> > Hel.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: G.F. Phillips <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 6:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: ADD & ADHD
> >
> >
> > > Dear Stephen
> > > I swore, in an earlier message I said that I would not , under any
> > > circumstances reply to anything bearing the the name ADHD. I am
however
> > > moved by your message.
> > >
> > > It is unfortunate that I should reply to you in a psychodynamic way.
> I
> > > totally support you in your statement. It feels unfortunate to me
> that
> > in
> > > this politically correct society, that we should not be allowed to
> suggest
> > > the MOTHER as being important. She is , indeed, terribly importamt
in
> > the
> > > upbringing of the infant. Without the Mother we should surely be
lost.
> I
> > > consider feminists' to be without breast and without that which could
be
> > > described as WOMANHOOD. For the Femiinists amongst you, can reply,
but
> > > before you do please listen from a Feminist Friend; 'If my foetus is
> male
> > I
> > > will kill it' After birth the BABY (BOY) was the love of her life
> and
> > is
> > > now a Consultant Physician in a a major taeching hospital, in London.
> His
> > > mother is in constant contact and tells me that the milk is still in
her
> > > breasts. SOMEONE EXPLAIN IF YOU CAN?
> > >
> > > Due to the abuse in this group, I am not in the least interested in
the
> > > political views of the feminist movement, but only from WOMEN in the
> true
> > > sense of the word.
> > >
> > > Gerald
> > >
> > >
> > > ' All Women envy the Penis'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rennie, Steve [HES] <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Date: 02 May 2000 11:43
> > > Subject: RE: ADD & ADHD
> > >
> > >
> > > >Helen (and others in the ADHD thread), I have been a playworker since
> the
> > > late 1960s, mostly on adventure playgrounds in the UK. In the last
> > fifteen
> > > years my direct work with children has tended to be more specialist.
> Over
> > > the years many children have come to me with labels, increasingly of
> late
> > > ADHD. I have never yet found a child labelled in that way who was
unable
> > to
> > > relate to me constructively and attentively through their play. In a
> short
> > > series of experiments, I asked principal carers, who had expressed
major
> > > concerns about their relationships with their children, to engage with
> > them
> > > in imaginal play. Every one reported considerable and sustained
> > improvements
> > > both in their relationships with the child and in the child's
> > relationships
> > > with others.
> > > >
> > > >My observations of children with their principal carers
(overwhelmingly
> > > their mothers) appear to indicate that most apparently anti-social
> > > behaviours exhibited by the children are best explained as
"dysplay",
> > > distorted play cues arising from increasingly desperate attempts on
the
> > part
> > > of the child to get playful interaction with the carer. A short period
> of
> > > accurate response to play cues appears to diminish this "dysplay"
> > > dramatically and in a sustained fashion.
> > > >
> > > >The major problem I have had in gaining acceptance of this technique,
> > would
> > > appear to be its lack of seriousness. Engaging with a child in
imaginal
> > play
> > > looks silly and adult participants often say that it feels silly at
> first.
> > > One mother of a four year old who had set fire to his nursery school
and
> > his
> > > house said that it felt she was ignoring the problem when she just
> played
> > > cars (with noises) while lying on the carpet with him. However, she
also
> > > said that the end of that session, when he spontaneously cuddled her,
> was
> > > the first time that had happened since he had been a baby.
> > > >
> > > >If I had made the option of medication for the child available to
that
> > > mother at the outset, I am sure that she would have taken it. She
would
> > have
> > > felt she was addressing a serious problem seriously.
> > > >
> > > >Stephen Rennie, Leeds Metropolitan University
> > > >[log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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