Dear Alison
I am from Darlington, live in Bishop Auckland and work at South Tyneside. If
you saw the coverage of Paul Gascoigne blubbering on TV; Geordies aren't so
hard.
A maximum I use, 'fail to prepare, prepare to fail.'
Warm Regards Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: alison hall <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 18 February 2000 00:45
Subject: Re: BODY-MIND
>Dear Kevin,
>
>What you said in your 2nd para suddenly brought to mind a poster I observed
>whilst trekking in Nepal last March. I was bloody knackered. I had
>suffered from abdominal paradox for 10 mins with my breathing the day
before
>(it was the first week of the trek!) (I think due to fluid overload,
>exercise oedema and exhaustion) and the following day had severe diarrhoea
>which made even walking difficult! (Errrmmm, I'll terminate my recounting
>of my physical experience now. It aint pleasant - but you know what
>trekkers are like about stories of bowel problems!). Anyway, back to the
>point of the story (I'm a bit like Ronnie Corbett I know) - but I looked up
>whilst feeling like giving up and saw this on a poster:-
>
>"WINNERS never QUIT
>QUITTERS never WIN"
>
>It was sort of my philosophy of life anyway and this really hit home and
>although over the entire trek I was the ill-est (? my English grammar)
>person on the trek - developing giardiasis and having to walk with this for
>1000 meters and having several minor asthma attacks - I was newly diagnosed
>- at high altitude and several of our party nearly dying) I never quit and
>everyone was amazed at me - especially when I said I'd go back there like a
>shot. They put this down to me being a mad (and hard) Geordie. Maybe I'm
>just a denier.
>
>Alison
>
>>From: "kevin reese" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: BODY-MIND
>>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:07:27 -0000
>>
>>Dear Alison
>>
>>Some nice examples. I am personally shocked that anyone doesnt believe in
a
>>strong mind/body relationship and or the perception of pain and
behavioural
>>strategies ensuing are central in nature.
>>
>>As a student I was told of a survey that listed terminally ill cancer
>>patients as either fatalist, no feelings towards their fate, fighters and
>>deniers. The deniers did best and I remember this when I consider
>>practising
>>amateur concelling or psychology.
>>
>>I am also suspicious of psychologists. Several small surveys amongst
>>psychology students; in the early 80''s and sorry I do not have at hand,
>>show an alarmingly high pyschosis level in psychology students.
>>
>>This along with the infancy of the science may explain the aggressive
>>marketing of the psychosocial model, in some quarters. Sometimes I feel
>>there is a missionary type zeal to convert the thicko PT;s to the more
>>correct pyschological model of the treatment of pain.
>>
>>As Gifford said at the 1999 Conf in Birmingham UK. There are many layers
we
>>can influence chronic pain from the genetists to the politician. We all
>>have
>>a fragment of the picture and a small window of influence. The trick is to
>>know what you can do and try to help people on this level.
>>
>>Regards Kevin Reese UK PT
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: alison hall <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>Date: 16 February 2000 21:38
>>Subject: Re: BODY-MIND
>>
>>
>> >Dear McSiff et al,
>> >
>> >Interesting this neuropsycho stuff. Especially with the debate many of
>>us
>> >recently had regarding placebo and US.
>> >
>> >Just watched a very interesting TV programme by a doctor who is
>> >investigating this angle. Noted how a chap who had cancer (I think it
>>was
>> >lung) had an actual physical shrinking of the tumour with "placebo"
>> >treatment; when he found out by reading in the newspaper that the
>>medication
>> >was not really "effective", his tumour re-grew. He again had medication
>> >which he was told would help: yep, you guessed it - tumour shrunk again
>> >(markedly). He then read again that the treatment he had wasn't really
>>an
>> >effective one. The tumour re-grew and he died shortly after. Hmmmmm.
>> >
>> >May be a lot of this body-mind stuff is coming from the autonomic
nervous
>> >system. We all know about psychosomatic symptoms - that they really do
>> >exist but are caused by a stressful/psychological cause. But surely
that
>> >can work both ways: you get a virus, for example, really do have
terrible
>> >symptoms and this "stresses your mind", perpetuating the symptoms.
>> >
>> >My mate told me that she read about this guy in USA who is an "expert"
in
>> >M.E. Apparently, if a patient comes in saying that all the docs tell
him
>>he
>> >has M.E. but personally the patient intimates that he doesn't feel that
>>he
>> >has, the expert says,
>> >
>> >"Well, I am the leading World Expert in M.E. and I don't think you have
>>it
>> >but I believe that you will get better".
>> >
>> >Should the patient say that he feels he definitely has got M.E., Doc
>>says,
>> >"Well, I am the leading World Expert in M.E. and I believe you
definitely
>> >have got M.E. If you follow my advice, you will get better".
Apparently
>>he
>> >has an amazingly high success rate.
>> >
>> >My physio assistant keeps saying that in the Day Hospital where I work
>>alone
>> >on a particular weekday, she frequently overhears the patients say to
one
>> >another that I make a huge difference to them every week. I began
>>realising
>> >that after every treatment (and often at start of treatment) many of the
>> >same patients would say to me that they always felt better and they knew
>>I
>> >was doing them good. I think they're encouraged when they see one of
>>their
>> >peers improve in front of them. The ones that say that they will not
get
>> >better before we start on them and keep up this negative attitude do
tend
>>to
>> >slip back and do worse, despite whether or not we actually initially
sort
>> >out their problems. The positive ones do seem to progressively improve,
>> >even if slightly. I do try to be enthusiastic and positive with all the
>> >patients, and try to show that I do care about them and have a personal
>> >desire (which is actually very real) to help them as best as I possibly
>>can.
>> >
>> >I am not trying to suggest that the mere therapist-patient interaction
>>ONLY
>> >helps the healing process, but I am sure it goes a long way towards it.
>>As
>> >Ian pointed out in the US debate, may be it is our personal "human"
>> >interaction skills with each patient, which will consist of many things
>> >including: understanding, patience, confidence, interest in the
>>well-being
>> >of the patient, and a desire to help them, as we concurrently physically
>> >treat them with our techniques be it manual or machine, that ultimately
>> >speeds the healing process. These skills are built up with pre-existing
>> >knowledge of the subject, people and all our current and past
experiences
>> >and willingness to learn more.
>> >
>> >We know ourselves that if we visit a caring doctor who gives us time and
>> >confidence that we "feel" much better, than if the doctor brushes us off
>> >like our problem is unimportant and he has no time for us (a point
>>brought
>> >up in the TV programme).
>> >
>> >Naturally, we need the skills to cause a physical improvement so that
the
>> >patient actually does get better with our hands on - and indeed, you
>>would
>> >need to cause a physical change to get the patient's trust first so they
>> >believe you can help. What I am saying is that our actual physio skills
>> >(hands-on) are highly important in the healing process. However, surely
>>if
>> >we remain positive and enthusiastic it may help to speed along the
>>process.
>> >We all know anyway we need to get their trust to get patient compliance.
>>Of
>> >course, we also need to be honest when we can't help someone - but when
>>we
>> >think we can help them, we should really try to be positive, even if we
>>are
>> >honest with the patient that we can only get them "partially" better.
>>But
>> >better nonetheless.
>> >
>> >Alison.
>> >
>> >>From: [log in to unmask]
>> >>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>Subject: BODY-MIND
>> >>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:38:24 EST
>> >>
>> >>On 2/15/00, Niel Spielholz<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >><< I think there is a little misunderstanding of what the term, "A
>>healthy
>> >>mind in a healthy body", originally meant. It comes from the Greek
"Mens
>> >>sana
>> >>in corporum sanum" (I hope I haven't botched the Greek endings), which
>> >>expressed a goal to be strived for, not that possessing one leads to
>> >>possessing the other. The Greeks believed in developing the mind and
the
>> >>body, and their goal was to be "healthy" in both. >>
>> >>
>> >>***You are correct in questioning the original aphorism. I
intentionally
>> >>quoted it as it is popularly applied today in order to make those
>> >>contradictions more apparent.
>> >>
>> >>It has indeed been stated that the saying has been misapplied,
>> >>mistranslated
>> >>or only partially quoted out of its original context. The version that
>>you
>> >>quote above is in Latin ("mens sana in corpore sano"), which emphasises
>> >>that
>> >>the original (Greek?) form is very rarely quoted or known. Apparently
>>the
>> >>Roman, Juvenalis (Juvenal), wrote this in his work "Saturae", though
>>most
>> >>of
>> >>us state that its origins lie in earlier Greek philosophy.
>> >>
>> >>Has anyone come across the earliest origins of this aphorism? Does
>>anyone
>> >>know how its original appeared in Greek? Has anyone even seen it in
>>Greek?
>> >>
>> >><<The original use of the phrase was not meant to imply a mind-body
>> >>interaction. If people are using it in that context, then they are
>>taking
>> >>it
>> >>out of context. Or at least that's how I remember hearing Socrates (or
>>was
>> >>it
>> >>Plato?) describe it to the
>> >>class as we walked in the gardens.>>
>> >>
>> >>***Now you will have many of us guessing - was it Socrates, Plato,
>>Juvenal
>> >>or
>> >>someone less well known ?
>> >>
>> >>Mel Siff
>> >>
>> >>Dr Mel C Siff
>> >>Denver, USA
>> >>[log in to unmask]
>> >>
>> >
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>>
>
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