JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for SPM Archives


SPM Archives

SPM Archives


SPM@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SPM Home

SPM Home

SPM  2000

SPM 2000

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Theoretical questions about t-tests, smoothing and degrees of freedom

From:

Karl Friston <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Karl Friston <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:46:42 +0100 (BST)

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

Dear Patrick,

> First, I know temporal smoothing (TS) has been applied before any other
> analysis is performed.  This TS, is it in function of the haemodynamic
> delay or not ? (And if not, where comes haemodynamic delay then in the
> picture?) I found some formulas about it in the SPM book on page 86-88,
> but I'm not quite sure about them. And which other smoothings are
> related to TS and how (Spatial smoothing, ....). What are exactly the
> consequences of these smoothings on the degrees of freedom (something
> done automatically by SPM, but I'm eager to know how it happens
> exactly)? I know it depends on the number of scans taken from a subject
> (supposing a single subject study, one run for clarity), but does it
> vary when it's a study dealing with two conditions or when e.g. 4
> conditions are studied.  And if multiple runs are being used, is it
> only the multiple of it or not?

Firstly temporal filtering (i.e. smoothing or low-pass filtering and
high-pass filtering or 'drift removal') is distinct from convolving the
stimulus function (e.g. stick or box-car function) with a hemodynamic
response function (HRF) or basis set modeling voxel-specific HRFs.  The
delay is embodied in the latter not the former.  The effective degrees
of freedom are simply a function of the serial correlations in the
time-series and can be thought of as the number if temporal resolution
elements (RESELS) in an analagous way to spatial smoothing (i.e. Eff.
d.f. is roughly the length of the time-sereis divided by the FWHM of
the temporal smoothness).  It therefore depends on both the number of
scans and the seriel correlations.  Smoothing is a device which
regularises the correlation structure so that its estimation is more
robust.

> Then I've some questions about those t-test-like t-tests used in SPM.
> When e.g. a contrast C, namely A - B, is offered, your t-value for
> every vovel v will become:
> 
> t(v, C) = (Beta(v,A) - Beta(v,B))/Error(v, C)
> 
> with Beta(v,i) the regressioncoefficient for condition i in the GLM and
> Error(v, C) the error between the modelled signal and the original
> signal (for clarity zero mean supposed), given the contrast C. This
> error, is that a squared error, i.e.  the square of the difference
> between the signal-activity and the modelled activity, summed over all
> scans for that voxel ? Or, is it a root squared error (thus the root of
> previous formula), the used formula in the SPM book is not quite clear
> about that.  I suppose last option is the correct one, but I'm not
> quite sure.

The denominator is the standard error of the contrast (i.e. the square
root of the estimated error variance over scans).  This is a function
of the serial correlations (V), sum of squares of the residuals (r'r)
and the effective degrees of freedom trace(RV).


  t = C'.Beta/SE, SE^2 = (r'r)/trace(RV)*C'*pinv(X)*V*pinv(X)'*C  (1

> And what about it, if you have three conditions in your contrast C,
> let's say A + B - 2D. Is in that case the t-test equal to
> 
> t(v, C) = (Beta(v,A) + Beta(v,B) - 2Beta(v,D))/Error(v, C)


The standard error is itself a function of the contrast; here
C = [1 1 -2] in (1) above

> Another question, again related with the degrees of freedom: how are
> they calculated exactly for their use in the transition from t-tests to
> Z-scores ? Normally a model (with two conditions), looses 3 degrees of
> freedom by means of its mean, and the the two regressioncoefficients.
> So when having 120 scans, you got a df of 117, i.e. sqrt(117) must be
> used as factor, or are there also other Bonferoni-like influences (the
> smoothing parameter s e.g., although I've no idea if it's related to
> the temporal, the spatial smoothing or I don't know what other kind of
> smoothing). And, does it matter if you used 2, 3 or more conditions in
> your study to determine the df ? I suppose so, since you've less scans
> per condition in case you've more conditions and vice versa, but I
> found no evidence for it in literature.

The d.f. does indeed decrease with the number of parameters you have to
estimate.  I would remember that the statistics in SPM are no different
from conventional parameteric statistics using the general linear
model.  The only difference is that when it comes to making corrections
to the p values Gaussian field theory is employed (this is after
parameter estimation and generation of the t statitsic).

I hope this helps - Karl


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager