Noah,

I think you might need also to know the opinion of another student in a 
similar, almost, situation. I am a PhD student at Edinburgh College of Art, 
of course in the UK. Although I am not a UCL member, but I have found it 
very interesting and important to use Space Syntax in my research which is 
about pedestrian movement. I just could not find it very convincing to my 
mind to ignore such a theory with the technique attached to it, as it is 
always referred to, for this reason of this geographical distance, five 
hours by train.

After getting in depth in my study, I found it useful for both of us, me and 
the UCL. For me I have gained a lot of knowledge in a totally different 
topic from the ones I used to, as an urban designer. For the UCL as opening 
new doors for developing the method and adding another example to their data 
base, as I am applying the method on Cairo, Egypt. It is important always to 
have this kind of lateral thinking that enrich the usual longitudinal 
thinking, again for both of us.

About my experience, members of Space Syntax Laboratory were very helpful 
either by phone, email, and even by making them selves available for 
appointments with any knowledge seeker. I can mention, Prof. Bill Hillier, 
who were very helpful in our last meeting and even offered help through 
email, Dr. Julienne Hanson and Alan Penn for their replies on all mailbase 
enquiries, Laura Vaughn and Kayvan Karimi for their instant feed back. And 
even their students as Kim who graduated last June, was very helpful in 
giving me the full list of references he used in his thesis even before he 
graduated. I hope I did not forgot any one who has helped me.

Any way you will find a lot of Space Syntax published works, try to limit 
your self in the latest and most relevant to you, which explain the latest 
development in the theory, in that you do not need any visit to the UCL. But 
you will need it in some technical advice in how to apply the method on your 
specific case study and what variables you should use in order to obtain 
certain results according to your objectives, in that you need to have an 
oral discussion together with your Axial map. So I think you first need to 
obtain the software by attending that one day course, and have with you all 
the points you want to discuss about your readings, try to arrange a meeting 
with one of the laboratory members next day. And even have your axial map 
drawn on a cad programme, preferable if it was saved as pict from Minicad 
software. Then have the feed back with the software and go back making more 
investigations using both. You might need a further meeting in the stage of 
interpretation of data, according to the limit you want to go to in your 
analysis. And that is it…

I have only one comment at  the end, the proposal you have sent us is a huge 
piece of work for the level of study, try to limit it.

Good luck

Mohamed Salheen
Tel: 0044 131 221 6280
Fax: 0044 131 221 6157

Edinburgh College of Art,
79 Grassmarket Campus,
Building 6,
Edniburgh, EH1 2HG
UK



>Noah,
>
>of course I think you are right and can do a lot even without local
>support. Lots of people have in the past (its a bit more difficut and you
>may not get so far but..). Part of the benefit is that just doing the study
>makes one look at things in detail and that is always useful. Anyhow, I
>can't remember if I pointed you towards Margarita Greene's paper on
>university campuses in Santiago de Chile. This was in the last Syntax
>Symposium Proceedings, and if you send me a snail mail address I'll post
>you a photocopy.
>
>Alan
>
> >Dear John and List,
> >
> >First let me thank you all for your comments and suggestions.  They've 
>been
> >useful as I finished constructing my research design and have begun my 
>data
> >collection.  One of the primary points that has come out of this 
>discussion
> >so far is what is the appropriate time and level of study required to get
> >dependable S/s results?  I will try to address this first issue through
> >personal example right now, and then I'll ask some of my more technical
> >questions about my project in a separate email.
> >
> >For clarity's sake, I am completing this thesis project for my
> >undergraduate degree.  The university I attend has no Space Syntax 
>program
> >or classes, and my primary advisors are in Urban Studies and 
>Anthropology.
> >Everything I've learned about S/s has been self-taught and has usually
> >entailed teaching my professors as well!  Alan, John Peponis and John
> >O'Flynn have all suggested that S/s research project of this scale should
> >really be done at the PhD or masters level.  John O'Flynn made the point
> >that an adequate understanding of the nuances of Space Syntax really
> >requires more dedicated study and/or tutelage.  I wholeheartedly agree 
>with
> >both of these assessments!  Given my choice, I would much rather have the
> >funding, time and academic support which a PhD program would provide.
> >
> >Unfortunately, this isn't a possibility for me yet.  As far as I can 
>tell,
> >Prof. Peponis is the only person teaching Space Syntax here in the U.S.  
>He
> >has given me some good advice by email, but he is busy with his own
> >projects and his own students to teach.  My advisors offer excellent
> >support and encouragement, but they are not familiar enough with the 
>method
> >to give me accurate and detailed advice.  Because of this, I've had to
> >teach myself through reading and trial-and-error experimentation.
> >
> >My case aside, the broader question is can people learn and use Space
> >Syntax if they don't have access to the full UCL facilities?  For my own
> >sake, I should certainly hope so!  Can they learn S/s on their own, 
>outside
> >of an academic context?  Probably not to any level that would be useful.
> >But if the configurational effects on human movement and behavior which
> >have been measured and reported are true (i.e., not just some measurement
> >error or methodological artifact), than it shouldn't matter what level of
> >training you've got.  If spatial configuration -really- does exert some
> >type of statistical, deterministic influence on patterns of behavior, 
>than
> >these effects will exist before and after they are measured, regardless 
>of
> >the quality of a researcher's study.
> >
> >Where experimental design, experience, and the art of S/s probably comes
> >into play is in detecting and interpreting these effects.  I agree that 
>it
> >takes the right education to conduct a project which will accurately
> >measure configurational effects, and enough background knowledge to
> >interpret your findings correctly.  But I disagree with you John when you
> >say that we cannot hope to apply S/s to real-life and academic situations
> >without this training.  Our results 'instrument might be cruder, but we
> >should nevertheless be able to detect configurational effects and draw
> >conclusions for our work.
> >
> >In my particular case, there is no doubt that I'd be able to conduct a
> >better study if I had the full S/s training.  I would relish the help of 
>an
> >experienced mentor to give me guidance and suggestions.  Actually, that 
>is
> >the reason I sent my research design to this list in the first place!  
>;-)
> >But without these, all we can do is email the people who know what 
>they're
> >doing, read as many articles and other studies as we can, and try and
> >figure out what we're doing the old fashioned way - through trial and 
>error
> >experimentation.  The jury is definitely still out whether it will work
> >with my particularly project, but I have to believe that S/s is powerful
> >enough to withstand a little ignorance and hubris on the part of the
> >researcher.  If it weren't, what would it be worth anyway?  ;-)
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Noah Raford
> >
> >PS - technical S/s questions in the next email.
> >
> >
> >**************
> >
> >
> >>Dear Noah & Alan,
> >>
> >>I only read Alan's response to Naoh request for advice today, though I 
>had
> >>intended to write a note after I first read noah's message.
> >>
> >>I am not completely sure at what level Noah is completing his study 
>later
> >>this year, whether it is PhD, Masters, post -grad or what. I completed 
>my
> >>B.Arch. last year, which you might say is the equivalent of a post.-grad
> >>diploma (or a masters?-or is it just a peculiar architectural thing?!) 
>and I
> >>used some space syntax theory and attended the day course at UCL to 
>obtain
> >>the software and the training. However I was careful to limit its use in 
>my
> >>year's study, because really I don't think devoting a whole year to it 
>or
> >>basing a project completely on it would have been supported or 
>appreciated
> >>in my faculty.
> >>
> >>But my overall impression was, (and I don't want to be too discouraging 
>to
> >>Noah)and continues to be now that I am working in practice and wondering
> >>from time to time what the application of Space Syntax analysis might be 
>in
> >>some of the projects I am working on, is that one really needs to have
> >>probably done the Masters at UCL or have studied Space Syntax under or 
>with
> >>some group or tutor that has done so if one is to make any constructive 
>use
> >>of it at the level of real input into a project or real understanding or
> >>insight in an academic situation. The overwhelming impression I was left
> >>with is that Space Syntax is as much an art as a science; an analysis 
>takes
> >>a lot of time to set up methodically, the parameters need to be very
> >>carefully drawn with  alot of background knowledge of what has worked 
>before
> >>and where the pitfalls are; and equally the interpretation of the 
>results is
> >>based on a lot of in-depth knowledge and is fraught with nuances of
> >>interpretation.
> >>
> >>Those of us who haven't been trained in S/s cannot really apply it with
> >>authority to either real -life or academic situations.
> >>
> >>Is this correct?
> >>
> >>John O'Flynn
> >>Dublin
>
>
>________________________________________________________
>Alan Penn, Reader in Architectural and Urban Computing
>Director, VR Centre for the Built Environment
>The Bartlett School of Architecture and Planning
>1-19 Torrington Place  (Room 335)
>University College London, Gower Street, London WC1E 6BT
>tel. +44 (0)20 7504 5919   fax. +44 (0)20 7916 1887
>mobile. +44 (0)411 696875
>email. [log in to unmask]
>www.   http://www.vr.ucl.ac.uk/  http://spacesyntax.com
>________________________________________________________
>
>




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