I'm not judging him, Mark. I just said he wouldn't be my kind of guy.
Mairead
On Sat, 1 Jul 2000, Mark Weiss wrote:
> Marvell was also an anti-Cromwellian. The Horatian Ode marks an ambivalent
> turning-point in his politics. He was also, after the Retoration, a rather
> courageous MP and author of a series of long satirical poems that if his
> authorship had been found out could have got him hanged. And he's really
> not judgeable as if he were active today--the past was a different country
> (see Carrington, _The Whig Interpretation of History_).
>
> At 12:08 PM 7/1/2000 -0400, you wrote:
> >Marvell was a Cromwellian -- I haven't read his Horatian Ode Upon
> >Cromwell's Return from Ireland, but it might make interesting reading in
> >comparison to Brendan Kennelly's Cromwell. I reread "The Garden" earlier
> >in the week and was struck by how much my own philosophy has changed
> >since my school days. Interestingly, what I remember most clearly about
> >that poem from those days is the fruity, peachy, sensual stuff. But I
> >think that is what Marvell thought he was fighting against -- reminiscent
> >of Milton maybe, being of the devil's army without fully knowing it.
> >Cromwell, of course, was never of the devil's army and always had God on
> >his side. This asset may account for some of his variability, i.e., the
> >freedom of conscience so ardently fought for in England and Ireland did
> >not extend to Roman Catholics, the slaughter of whom was "a righteous
> >judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches." Those were exceedingly
> >brutal times. Cromwell himself was buried in Westminster Abbey but after
> >the Restoration his body was exhumed and hanged at Tyburn, according to
> >my encyclopedia.
> >Mairead
> >
> >On Sat, 1 Jul 2000, Lawrence Upton wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know the BK poem.
> >>
> >> What are your doubts about Marvell, Mairead?
> >>
> >> Cromwell may have been variable but, and this is an article of faith rather
> >> than a statement of fact, you don't come to such power unless you are a
> thug
> >>
> >> L
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Cc: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: 01 July 2000 03:38
> >> Subject: Cromwell
> >>
> >>
> >> | Does anyone out there have a copy of Brendan Kennelly's poem, Cromwell?
> >> | Cromwell was one heck of a variable fellow and not my style at all (I
> >> | have my doubts about Marvell too). But I'd like to hear what Brendan K
> >> | makes of him (not much chance of drumming up K in Ithaca this late on a
> >> | Friday night but then all you chaps are probably in bed -- we don't sleep
> >> | any more, gave it up, unprofitable),
> >> | Mairead
> >> |
> >> | On Fri, 30 Jun 2000, Lawrence Upton wrote:
> >> |
> >> | > He was pretty terrible then.
> >> | >
> >> | > This looks to me like another version of "Go to <name your country> and
> >> see
> >> | > how you like it" as an answer to "The police are corrupt"
> >> | >
> >> | > L
> >> | >
> >> | > ----- Original Message -----
> >> | > From: "Douglas Clark" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> | > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> | > Sent: 30 June 2000 16:04
> >> | > Subject: Re: owning language
> >> | >
> >> | >
> >> | > | Maybe Mairead. A Drogheda man has analysed the statistcis for
> >> | > | Cromwell and come to the conclusion that `Cromwell in Ireland'
> >> | > | is a myth. He was no harsher than his European contemporaries
> >> | > | in miltary affairs and maybe less so.
> >> | > |
> >> | >
> >> | >
> >> |
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
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