More snake oil, I fear
>
> "The
> first list: ' poets who talk most about L= poetry' is
> not reliable: if Stead
> ever has it is has been to mock it. (or do you mean we
> 'pursue a right
> wing politics?)."
> I meant that all the poets in the list I gave have
> right-wing/conservative political views and/or a
> record of taking right-wing positions. I fail to see
> why this should be offensive to the poets mentioned -
> Stead, for instance, has been only too happy to be the
> public face of the right-wing education 'thinktank'
> the Education Forum, to assert support Rogernomics and
> to oppose electoral reform in public. I suppose he
> might prefer to be called centre-right, but it's
> certainly not outrageous to call him a right-winger.
But Scott, you were answering Philip's response to your assertion
that L=poetry interested poets pursued right-wing politics. My
response was that Stead was not a L=poetry interested poet,
regardless of his politics, do you dispute that? And it is confusing to
say so. But then, you have a problem mustering evidence for the
'many' such poets don' t you? It is outrageous to claim I have right
wing views or a record of taking right-wing positions.
>
> "The next list is not very
> helpful to you other than it is about as disparate a
> bunch as you could
> wish."
>
> As I pointed out when I gave it!
No. You said you didn't know why you picked them and that they
were off the top of your head. Does it follow that your list was
therefore disparate group? I have no problem with the disparateness,
but thought it worth pointing out.
I was not exactly
> trying to fill a hall of fame, though I am a fan of
> all the poets mentioned. I am sure Philip has access
> to all the standard anthologies and histories, I was
> trying to throw in a few surprises (though of course
> Smithyman would be a big part of any history worth its
> salt). God save poets from the anthologists, I guess
> I'm saying...
>
>
> "Te Kooti: there's never been a published collection
> of his
> writings--I wish there had been. That he is a poet is
> an invention of
> Leigh Davis."
>
> This statement is extremely annoying. Its arrogance
> explains why your millionaire mate Davis' book, which
> pillaged Te Kooti and Maori culture in the name of a
> third-hand postmodernism, has pissed off so many
> people here in Aotearoa. Davis didn't invent Te Kooti
> as a poet - what gives you the nerve to even say that?
> - he tried to assasinate him. Why don't you respond to
> Tina Engels-Schwarzpaul's extended critique of Davis'
> mess, which she gave the not-inappropriate name
> 'Between meaning and nonsense'? And if you were able
> to crawl from the wreckage of your Eurocentric mindset
> for a moment or two, you would be able to realise that
> one does not have to publish with Oxford University
> Press or be dismembered by Leigh Davis' word processor
> to be a 'poet.'As it happens, many of Te Kooti's poems
> have been published, and I have a folio of them I
> would be happy to make available to Philip.
Scott, as a poster whose style is to annoy, you should not mind the
annoyed statements you provoke. It is the case, as I say, that there is
no published collection of Te Kooti's writing, and that I wish there
were. My point was, as you say yourself, the work is hard to find, and
undervalued.You are at liberty to question the terms of Davis's
reading of Te Kooti's work, but not that any one else has made a such
serious attempt to present or conceive of Te Kooti as an artist and a
poet. I can assure you that your view that Davis tried to 'assassinate'
Te Kooti and 'pillaged' his culture would appal and distress his
descendants, and the Ringatu faithful of the Turanganui a Kiwa who
supported and collaborated in his project from start to finsih. Nor
would it be supported by Te Kooti's biographer, Judith Binney. I was
the co-editor, with Davis, of what Scott so kindly refers to as Davis's
'mess'--this is a book/CD publication , Te Tangi a te Matuhi (the title
is that of a Te Kooti patere (or poem if you like))published last year.
The critique so-called hardly deserved a response from us.
>
> "Scott, since you are now connecting the University of
> Auckland
> English Department with poets who you say did (or did
> not in
> Michele's case) lock their doors while your mates got
> their heads
> cracked a couple of blocks away in the University
> Admin. building,
> and some people will know I work in the English
> Department, let me
> just say to all members of this list that the
> insinuations are malicious,
> unjust and have no basis in fact."
>
>
> I have no idea whether you locked yourself in your
> room, and I never said you did.
Again, again. You implied it (as I said-- Scott, you claim to like
robust disciplined argument, but don't play by the rules!
What I do know is that
> you, unlike senior English department figures in other
> parts of the country, did not lift a finger to condemn
> the actions of the police and the uni administration.
> Nor, I understand, did you deign to join the junior
> staff in your department who courageously tried to
> fight a large funding cut that was threatening their
> jobs. All of these criticisms are outlined in the open
> letter that has been published in A Brief Description
> of the Whole World. No one has questioned the factual
> basis of these criticisms (critics of the letter have
> instead focused on the relevance of a person's
> political action, or rather inaction, on an asessment
> of their poetics) but you are most welcome to give it
> a go. If you can refute them, I will retract them. You
> should base any attempt to refute them on what I
> really say in that document, which you have had a
> copy of for some months now, not on any imaginary
> insinuations. Once again, I stress that I am not
> trying to turn this into a witchhunt,
Why then do I get the impression that's exactly what you are doing?
List members might be interested to know that the National
Government's attack on the university funding in this country
extended over a number of years, but I'm not all that sure that they
will. Or that, adminstrations, staff and students were, unsurprisingly,
all opposed to this campaign that it was a constant source of concern
and periodically of outrage, that sometimes, for predictable reasons,
the pressure set students and/or staff against admininstration--this
was the situation at Victoria, to which Scott refers, or put them on
different paths of resistance, that I am well aware the work Tony,
Michael, and others put into the document they sent to the
newspapers, and was indeed involved in the discussions around it.
I am sure the list doesn't wish to know about the union meeetings I've
been to, how I've voted, and so on. Get off my back, Scott.
Wystan
but rather build
> a useful discussion.
>
> Cya
> Scott
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> Subject: Re: reply to P Nicolayev
> From: "Wystan Curnow" <[log in to unmask]>
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>
>
> Hello Scott,
> This is snake oil you'rr selling here.
> Philip take no notice. The
> first list: ' poets who talk most about L= poetry' is
> not reliable: if Stead
> ever has it is has been to mock it. (or do you mean we
> 'pursue a right
> wing politics?). See my previous email. The next list
> is not very
> helpful to you other than it is about as disparate a
> bunch as you could
> wish. Te Kooti: there's never been a published
> collection of his
> writings--I wish there had been. That he is a poet is
> an invention of
> Leigh Davis.
>
> Scott, since you are now connecting the
> University of Auckland
> English Department with poets who you say did (or did
> not in
> Michele's case) lock their doors while your mates got
> their heads
> cracked a couple of blocks away in the University
> Admin. building,
> and some people will know I work in the English
> Department, let me
> just say to all members of this list that the
> insinuations are malicious,
> unjust and have no basis in fact.
> Wystan
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > "This is very interesting. I have been New Zealand
> > Poetry with great
> > interest in the last weeks, and would appreciate any
> > recommendations and
>
>
>
> =====
> "Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how
> could I try to doubt it? First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have
> been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be
> explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life... Philosophical
> problems occur when language goes on holiday. We must not separate ideas from life,
> we must not be misled by the appearances of sentences: we must investigate the
> application of words in individual language-games" - Ludwig Wittgenstein
>
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