To quote Elvis Costello circa some time ago - "What's so funny about
peace, love and understanding?"

cheers

Steve KK (Capt.)


At 3:34 AM +0100 18/7/2000, J.V. Kinsella wrote:
>thanks, chris
>
>this says it all!!!
>
>jk
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>John Kinsella
>Churchill College
>Cambridge  CB3 ODS
>England.
>http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Square/8574/
>
>On Mon, 17 Jul 2000, Chris Hamilton-Emery wrote:
>
>>  I've been part of this list from its inception, working closely with John to
>>  develop it and its links to publishing ventures and activities throughout
>>  the world. It has been, and remains, a place of great diversity, offering
>>  bright and articulate exchange, a place for developing friendships and (most
>>  importantly) extending one's thinking on writing. It has changed my life and
>>  allowed me to enter into debate with poets of all persuasions, from all
>>  parts of the globe, age groups and genders.
>>
>>  The list has relied on common decency (though not without the benefit of
>>  heated exchange, we are after all in the real world), and a shared passion
>>  for all things relating to poetry and poetics. Sometimes the list has gone
>>  off-topic, but by and large these digressions have been fruitful and
>>  entertaining. But we're not here to talk about science, psychology or
>>  engineering, except of course in its direct relation to writing poems.
>>  Surely there's no need to even articulate this?
>>
>>  The list is sometimes forthright and challenging; but never threatening,
>>  gratuitous or prejudiced; and suggesting that poets here are behaving in
>>  this manner seems misjudged and, to be honest, quite offensive.
>>
>>  Poetryetc welcomes women and offers a place for women to speak safely as
>>  equals with men on the list. Gender issues in poetry and poetics remains an
>>  important part of the list's mission. This surely doesn't need regulating?
>>
>>  So I do not want to be part of a list that relies on rules or explicit codes
>>  of practice. In fact I don't want rules at all really. Perhaps it's all down
>>  to finding one's way here in this sometimes bewildering territory of names
>>  and voices from around the world. If so, new members should just take their
>>  time to enjoy the space without feeling the need to impose legislation! It's
>>  often better to listen hard, more than talk hard.
>>
>>  I personally (calmly) resent that I should have to apply to be here, or sign
>>  up to a code of practice to engage in any form of exchange with women on
>>  this list (many of whom I already work with), and I would personally regard
>>  this as degrading for any woman who has already chosen to be here actively,
>>  positively, contributing to the list.
>>
>>  I fully respect that some people feel more comfortable in a world governed
>>  by rules, but the list has survived without such systems and has flourished
>>  because of it. There have been rare (very rare) exceptions when someone has
>>  caused extreme offence, and action has been taken. We all work (as one would
>>  expect) to avoid such situations.
>>
>>  Perhaps one ought to consider how the poets here have already negotiated
>>  their own space and developed their courteous and positive membership of the
>>  list without recourse to such things as application forms and codes of
>>  practice. It will be a sad day if we were to resort to the use of such forms
>>  of control, merely to share our passions with other human beings. This is a
>>  valuable and open space: so let's not ruin it.
>>
>>  Best
>>  Chris
>>
>>

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