It seems to me that a couple of people who have left
the list complaining bitterly of 'vituperative
language' have been the main users of this device.
"Asshole", "stick it up your ass", Stalinist pimple",
"crashing bore","dull object", "idiot" - these are all
fairly vituperative, especially when they are not
supported by arguments and evidence! Another key
complaint is that discussion has strayed too far from
the 'subject' of the list - 'poetry and ancillary
matters'. This strikes me as a valourisation of the
inability of these people to cope with conceptions of
poetry rather different from their own. It is also a
nakedly repressive device, since the main purpose of
this list has surely been to establish what the
'ancillary matters' are. Some people think that
psychology is one such ancillary matter, for instance;
I don't, but it would be wrong for me to try to
proscribe the making of this assertion, especially
when I think I can throw considerable doubt on it. We
ought to avoid coming to premature and alienating
official 'conclusions' over the nature of 'ancillary
matters'.
Cheers
Scott
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Subject: Moving On or Taking A Cab with Oliver
From: "David Kennedy" <[log in to unmask]>
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Cassie Lewis wrote to the effect that we should not be
looking for ways to
exclude people. I have to confess that while I respect
this view, I find it
difficult to share it. It seems to me that there are
individuals whose sole
purpose in joining lists like poetryetc is to
(a)advertise their own
personalities (b)abuse other members and (c) who think
it is their divine
mission to 'liven up' such lists by various types of
'mischief' which -
surprise, surprise - no-one finds funny. In my view
this makes them
self-excluding because they are not participating in
the subject of the
list. But most importantly, it excludes others -
witness the fact that
several people have left this list because they are
fed up with the level to
which it has in some areas descended. This is, of
course, just one view of
such activity. Everyone will have their own.
However, I agree with Cassie that we should all move
on and in the interests
of that I would like to discuss some poetry. I came
across a book recently
which came out last year and seems to have eluded
reviewers. It is called
Almost and is by Oliver Reynolds. Reynolds is an
Anglo-Welsh poet who has
probably suffered from an early association with Craig
Raine and the
so-called martians or metaphor men. Anyway, his new
book is much better than
that and well worth a look. It's published by Faber
and I'll end by quoting
a bit from a poem called 'The Gap' which, yes, does in
part derive from the
cotton clothing chain:
Your white jeans had a workman's loop, handy for a
hammer
Which, climbing into a cab ("Chinatown..."),
Snagged, and the seam gave, and gave me more:
A private road to Paradise which, serpentine,
I took, exploring this gap, this fissure
For my fingers, for the aficionado
I am of you: your skin, your yawn, your laugh...
[Apologies if transmission misses up the lineation]
This seems to me to be a clever and complex portrayal
of desire. So, if you
like it, go buy the book. One of way of moving on is
to climb into that cab
with Oliver.
cheers
David
=====
"Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how
could I try to doubt it? First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have
been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be
explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life... Philosophical
problems occur when language goes on holiday. We must not separate ideas from life,
we must not be misled by the appearances of sentences: we must investigate the
application of words in individual language-games" - Ludwig Wittgenstein
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