Mark
The National Monuments Record Centre has records for the Monarch and the
Baden.

HMS Monarch was a dreadnought battleship of the Orion class which was
scuttled in 1925 off the Isles of Scilly for underwater detection trials by
the Royal Navy. (NMR number SV 81 SE 206)

SMS Baden was the only Bayern class German battle cruiser to be built
although 2 more, the Sachsen and Wurtemburg were lying launched but
unfinished at the end of WWI.

On the surrender of the German High Seas Fleet the Baden was taken to Scapa
Flow where an attempt was made to scuttle her on 21st June 1919, however she
sank in shallow water and was refloated. In August 1921, the Royal Navy
towed her out to sea off the Isle of Wight and slowly sank her in a series
of gunnery trials against her armour. Some references say she was scuttled
in St. Catherine's Deep, but she is believed to be some 30 miles South close
to the mid channel buoy E1 lying in some 200 ft of water (reference not
confirmed). As far as is known no salvage work has been undertaken on the
wreck. (NMR number SZ 46 NE 43)


The NMR doesn't appear to have any records for the other vessels you
mentioned but this may be due to them lying outside of the 12 mile limit.

Hope this is of some use.

Phil 
-----Original Message-----
From:	Mark Sommers [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent:	16 February 2000 15:37
To:	[log in to unmask]
Subject:	Monarch/Baden

Hi All,

Various tea-break discussions have led to the following questions:

Does anyone have any information about the first world war 
battleships; HMS Monarch and SMS Baden (or was it Bayern), or 
know where the information could be obtained?

These ships are listed (in various publications) as having been sunk 
as targets between the wars (along with others). Where they later 
raised and scrapped. If they were not raised, are the positions of 
the wrecks known and can they be dived?

Have there been any surveys of the wrecks, either at the time or 
more recently. Was it just target practice or experimentation into 
the effects of shell strikes, armour penetration etc.? Are the results 
available?

Also: any info. on the current status of the battleship (HMS 
Conqueror?) sunk as part of the Mulberry Harbour during WWII, 
and what does 'SMS' stand for (in German and translation if pos.)?

And a cruiser question(s),

Have the wrecks of the first world war armoured cruisers, HMS 
Black Prince and/or HMS Warrior been located? Both were 
presumed sunk during or shortly after the battle of Jutland.

Warrior was cast adrift after an attempt to tow it back to Britain, 
were all casualties removed? 

HMS Caroline (of WW1), is it at Belfast, what state is it in, is it 
open to visitors, any news on it or its future (if it has one)?

Thanks, hopefully

M. Sommers


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