-----Original Message-----
From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, December 11, 2000 12:34
Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>Nope. Not just where -I- live. Or work, for that matter.
>
>De Montfort University itself is beautiful example of 'architecture'. As is
>the Royal Infirmary, in which people die as well as live in, also on Oxford
>St.
>
>Architectures of control, of the remote hieratic boot treading on all the
>round earth's imagined. Architectures of the skinned soul, its parchment
>dried and pinned out flat in panopticons of denied inner space.
>
>If someone held an International conference which had no relationship to
>where it was held on the street where you lived and people came out of it
>talking about the desirability of viewing poetry, that art of Celan's
>'messages in a bottle', in terms of frigging architecture wouldn't you feel
>a wee bit 'invaded'?
Quite honestly David no I wouldn't. If a conference like that had been
held 800 yards from anywhere I have lived in my life (and I can assure
you I have lived in some bloody dismal holes in my time) I would have
been ecstatic. I took time out to wander around Leicester and
I thought it very appealing.....but then I served 'time' in Leeds and
everywhere on earth is appealing in comparison (except Middlesbrough).
Your anger seems misplaced because you are taking things out of context.
Of course there are architectural nightmares but there are also
architectural
dreams. But if you don't like a certain architectural complex blame the
architects not the poets! Poets deal in words not bricks and mortar. As
for the conference not having any relationship to where it was held well
I thought poetry was universal. Why do your own town down? You should
have been proud. Anyway I can't see any point in continuing this can you?
G
>>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Geraldine Monk <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 11:04 PM
>Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>
>
>> >a. The employment of 'architecture' as a paradigm for art: I have never
>yet
>> >known a new building that was a human habitation.
>> > Someone once said to me that 'it seems as though Hitler really won
>the
>> >war'. That's exactly how 'architecture', that most
>> > anti-democratic art, makes me feel.
>>
>> O.K. so you're angry because you don't like where you live.
>> But why take that out on a conference on poetry? I wasn't particularly
>> taken by the 'architecture' paradigm myself but it wasn't without
>interest.
>> Your own reaction proves this. Pity you weren't there to put in your two
>> penneth. We were quite free to to accept or reject such analogies or
>> metaphors or paradigms or whatever. It wasn't being put forward as a
>> new credo but as a personal work plan. It was also a very small part of
>> the conference which David K just happened to mention. There was a
>> lot of ground covered and a lot of laughter.
>>
>>
>>
>> >b. The repetition of 1914.
>>
>> It was a poetry conference not the outbreak a world
>> war.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >c. The imposition of the cash-nexus on speech.
>>
>> David this is sheer rubbish. Well o.k. we could have all arranged
>> to meet in the middle of a public park, brought a packed lunch,
>> slept on park benches and died en mass from hyperthermia but
>> some bright spark thought we may prefer to pay a few quid and
>> sit in a nice warm building on comfy chairs. What bloody evil people
>> we are. 'Bloated plutocrats' as my mother would have said but I
>> think she usually had something more decadent in mind.
>>
>> So what are you really angry about David?
>>
>> G.
>>
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: Geraldine Monk <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 10:07 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>> >
>> >
>> >> What exactly are you angry about David?
>> >> a. You live in a building?
>> >> b. 'Avant-garde' doesn't match the colour of your shoes?
>> >> c. A two day conference cost less than 3 compact discs?
>> >>
>> >> No comprendo
>> >> G.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 09:46
>> >> Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >It wasn't a sneery post it was an angry post.
>> >> >
>> >> >Inspired by a inhabitation of 'architecture'.
>> >> >
>> >> >The conference's own promotional material made great emphasis of
>> >> >'avant-garde'.
>> >> >
>> >> >35 quid plus 5? How much is that in roubles?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >db
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >From: Geraldine Monk <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 9:02 PM
>> >> >Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 05:08
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >except that I couldn't really afford the price of a ticket, it's
>> >curious
>> >> >> >sort of avant-garde that charges itself to meet itself.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thirty five quid for 2 days plus a fiver for dinner is
exceptionally
>> >> cheap
>> >> >> for a conference - the Bristol Romantics one the other year was 250
>> >> >> even if you were a speaker. I don't think by the way that the
>'avant-
>> >> >> garde' was charging itself to meet itself: presumably De Montfort
>> >> >> charges for its amenities, reasonably in both senses.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I'm incredibly tired but didn't notice that David K gave prominence
>> >> >> to the term 'avant-garde' in his post. I didn't get to all the
>events
>> >but
>> >> >> in fact don't remember that hoary old useless term coming into play
>> >> >> - why should it, people were just talking about & doing what they
>> >> >> do - there was a general acceptance of that, things went on from
>> >> >> there. A refreshing absence of 'them & us' attitudes. Despite
>> >> >> obvious differences, likes & dislikes. Coming home to read a
>> >> >> sneery post by one who didn't attend is a mite depressing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Alan Halsey (using themonk's email temporarily)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I never knew the conference organiser nor his studious school
>existed
>> >> >till
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> >saw the flyers for the conference, that's what I call 'reaching
out
>> to
>> >> >the
>> >> >> >community'.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >david bircumshaw
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> >From: kent johnson <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 3:32 PM
>> >> >> >Subject: Re: Language/Poetry/Performance Conference
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Peter Riley asked, responding to David Kennedy:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >b) "Forward" is exclusively conceived within the parameters set
>by
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >European artistic avant-garde of circa 1914. Can you think of
>> >> >anything
>> >> >> >> >discussed or presented at the conference which sought any other
>> >sense
>> >> >of
>> >> >> >> >direction?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> And David Kennedy had said:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Steve Mac Caffrey and Karen Mac Cormack both described how they
>> are
>> >> >> >> increasingly turning to architectural theory for ways to push
>their
>> >> >work
>> >> >> >> forward. This topic seemed to provoke the liveliest set of
>> questions
>> >> >and
>> >> >> >was
>> >> >> >> referred back to by other speakers on several occasions."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The "architectural-theory" direction is very interesting. I may
>be
>> >> >> jumping
>> >> >> >> to conclusions, but little doubt, I'd bet, that this "new turn"
>is
>> >> >> >> consistent with the "avant-garde's" inherited and generalized
>> desire
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> build futuristic poetry skyscrapers that will last until the
>> >asteroid
>> >> >> >hits.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> To this, the Russians (since we've been talking aobut them) have
>a
>> >> sort
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> riposte that is little-known in the West, and it would be an
>> example
>> >> of
>> >> >> >the
>> >> >> >> "another sense of direction" Peter asks for: The Paper
>Architecture
>> >> >> >school,
>> >> >> >> which arose in the 1980's and produced (sometimes
>> three-dimensional)
>> >> >> >visual
>> >> >> >> text-works unlike anything ever seen. There was some important
>> >> >> >> cross-fetilization between this group and Moscow poetry
>> >Conceptualism.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> But the after-wash of Language is much more ambitious: The
>> >neo-liberal
>> >> >> >drive
>> >> >> >> is to make World Trade Center Towers in college towns; building
>> >> nomadic
>> >> >> >> cities of huts is for losers.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Kent
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>>>>________________________________________________________________________
_
>> _
>> >> _
>> >> >> _
>> >> >> >_________
>> >> >> >> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
>> >> >> >http://explorer.msn.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
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