erminia
this is interesting but I'm frightened of abstractions so I'll have to chew
on it and make sure it's a case of I bite it not it bites me.
So, for the moment, food for thought
back later
david (out to lunch)
----- Original Message -----
From: erminia UKOnline <[log in to unmask]>
To: david.bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>; brit poets
<[log in to unmask]>; <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: De Sade's manners of thinking
> Hello, david, (nervous of a nearby of philosophy)......
>
>
> I have developed (last night) my own theory of the language-self:
> the self is, in my acceptation, the identity as location.
> Location of both the eye-geography and the general perspective of the
> surrounding world of
> the others and of all things.
> Language as writing is real but it is also so personalized and
> circumscribed into
> that given experience
> of that given self's view-point as to become automatically unreal to all
> others.
> I will soon show how this alienating process would eventually invest also
> the language-self.
> As soon as
> something becomes unreal to the
> 'all the others' it becomes simultaneously unreal also for the
> self-language,
> self-geographical-view-point.
> With "language as location" I do not mean language and place in relation
to
> local
> variations (dialect , accent, the local repertoires available to
individual
> speakers), of course.
> I do not even mean the place of residence of the eye-mind transforming
and
> elaborating
> into the identity the universalized language, as to become a "voice"(the
> personal idiolect).
> I am thinking of a more pervasive metaphoric and metaphorizing process as
to
> transform reality into
> thought. If reality mirrors itself into the though (into the abstractism
of
> our ideas and thoughts)
> then it necessarily looses its concreteness. This process is - I feel -
> instantaneous. Therefore, reality cannot be ever such, because of the
filter
> of the mind rendering everything into a narrative.
> This produces, I think, the so well self-alienation of the author towards
> his own texts. De Sade
> did not commit - in front of his own conscience - any crime since the
> language-location-narration of his identity reflected into the others made
> him loose progressively the vital links with the real background and
> "angolazione" which cause him to write.
> When this occurs, when one looses this kind of vital contact-association
> with one's language-location,
> there it comes the time for the pleasir du text.
>
> (Well.., does it make sense? maybe not?...I just had for lunch the
beautiful
> food left from last night supper with friends It is confusing.)
>
> Erminia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I know it could be said that 'writing is not real' does not disabl
> > transactional language, but isn't that too dependent at the root on the
> very
> > process of metaphor and transference that writing extends from?
> > language and materiality is very much a clouded mirror of contemplation,
> for
> > instance, it's easy to show anyone where 'God' is. Eh? 's Easy - 'God's
> > there - just passed by'. That is in language. Ah, so God's just a
> word-trick
> > and a conjuration-fooling.
> > But also I know what killed six millions Jews - what did? - these,
words.
> > Real immaterial words. That we can't live on but live by, that won't
feed
> us
> > but serve instead a Morgenstern sandwich.
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: brit poets <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: De Sade's manners of thinking
> >
> >
> > > >But, erminia, isn't that much the same as saying "I've got to rape
> > people,
> > > >I can't help it. Authoritarian laws try to suppress my freedom."
> > What's
> > > >needed is understanding, rather than emulation. I don't on the whole
> > > >believe that people have no choice.
> > >
> > > Paz, thinking about the contemporary pornography industry, on Sade:
> > >
> > > "Modernity desacralised the body, and advertising has used it as a
> > > marketing tool.... Sade had dreamed of a society with weak laws and
> > > strong passions, where the only right would be the right to pleasure,
> > > however cruel and lethal it might be. No one ever imagined that
> > > commercial dealings would supplant libertine philosophy and that
> pleasure
> > > would be transformed into an industrial machine."
> > >
> > > Perhaps these days de Sade would be an ascetic saint.
> > >
> > > It strikes me to read Sade requires, besides enormous stamina, a
fairly
> > > sophisticated understanding of the distinction between writing and
> > > reality: ie, the writing is not real, and is impotent, and Sade
> > > understood this profoundly. (I think Said argues something similar
> about
> > > Swift).
> > >
> > > Next to his revolutionary contemporaries, Sade seems in fact a mild
> > > figure - wasn't he sacked as a judge because he would not sentence
> people
> > > to death? I would think we could not do without de Sade, even though
> > > Philosophy in the Bedroom et al bored me to death and I never finished
> > > any of them. I always thought that was the point, I mean the boredom,
> > > not my slackness as a reader: the end result of all pornography is
> > > boredom, after all. I even got bored with Apollinaire's pornography,
> > > which is a lot shorter, although he managed to shock and amuse me
before
> > > he bored me, and parts were very erotic - a function entirely of the
> > > quality of the writing.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > Alison
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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