Vanity, envy and sloth.
--- Steven Bissell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Adam wrote;
> "It is patently obvious to me from all that I know of non-human animals
> that
> they do "feel" their worlds in moral ways: longing, mourning, shame,
> depression, etc. Again, to refer back to Descartes, supposedly one of
> the
> West's greatest thinkers, ludicrously aiming to prove that animals are
> mere
> automatons, poking them with sharp objects and declaring, "Oh, they cry
> out
> in pain, but that's only a built in mechanism. They're programmed to
> make
> that noise." I have always felt all related arguments to distance our
> species from others in some elitist and self-satisfied way stemmed from
> not
> much more than the frightened efforts of mortals hoping for a little bit
> of
> "I win! I'm better!" in their short lives."
>
> (and other good stuff I'm -snipping-)
>
> Bissell here: Just so non-human animals must feel: lust, avarice,
> gluttony,
> rage, (I forget the other three). The problem here, Adam, is that you
> seem
> to be proposing that *either* animals feel human-like moral emotions
> *or*
> they are Cartesian automations. Isn't there another course? Can't there
> be
> an alternative to the moral/immoral model? Actually, you proposed it
> yourself when you suggested the limits of the ecological niche defined
> "normal" and "abnormal" behaviors. I agree that acting within ecological
> bounds defines normality; i.e. a circus tiger is a repulsive brute
> compared
> to a wild tiger. Isn't that leaving the idea of morality and immorality
> aside? Is that what you were suggesting and the rest of us have missed
> the
> point, or am I putting words in your computer?
>
> Steven
>
> http://www.du.edu/~sbissell
> What we lost with that wild, primal existence
> was a way of being for which the era of
> agriculture and civilization lacks counterpoise.
> Human life is the poorer for it.
> Paul Shepard
>
=====
"In a nutshell, he [Steve] is 100% unadulterated evil. I do not believe in a 'Satan', but this man is as close to 'the real McCoy' as they come."
--Jamey Lee West
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