No comments.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steve <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Offlist


It is clear you are being an closed minded buffoon.  You tried to demean
the knowledge and character of the scientists and others who post at Trash
Talk in your original response to my aspartame thread.  Go read what you
wrote.  The people that I asked for information are quite knowledgable
about toxicology and I think their views on aspartame are germane.  Your
feeble attempt to dismiss what they have to say simply because of some
weak association with the Junkscience.com site speaks volumes of your
intellectual integrity (or lack thereof as the case may be).

Yeah that is a rotten thing to say, but I think you have opened this messy
can of worms and I am closing it.  You can respond to this if you like, I
will read it as I do most things from TrueBelievers as something to amuse
me.

> i do not work on aspartame. My conclusion for aspartame is that i don't
> know about it. If you do, please feel free to forward to us YOUR papers
> where you have proved the innocence of aspartame.

Why should I, it is clear that anything I provide will obviously be wrong
by association.

> allow the list to judge your own credentials and aspartame authority.
> Also, in the case you don't, the difference between us is that i don't
> believe Junkscience and you seem to do. It is other people's work you
> are
> talking about, and i do claim that any scientific work CAN potentially
> be
> politically biased. 

First, I have never claimed I was an expert on aspartame, but that I found
the claims hard to believe.  As for somebody who doesn't believe in junk
science you just gave a pretty good partial answer, scientific research
conducted with a poltical agenda in mind.

As for people's work, I find that a pathetic response form you when you
wrote that comment about the bias of the people who post at the
Junkscience.com BB.  Have you read any of the posts?  Participated in any
thread?  How do you know the quality of the people who post there?  Oh
that is right, by association.

> 1) I SAY SOMETHING AGAINST TRUSH TALK

Hey dopey.  I post at Trash Talk....alot.  Go there and educate yourself
before you open your mouth and insert your keyboard.  Trash Talk, is
hosted by Junkscience.com but the topics of converstations are not
controlled in any way by Junkscience.com (Steve Milloy).  In typical
TrueBeliever fashion instead of taking some time and expending some effort
to learn about something you jump to a conclusion that fits your world
view.  Personally I find it intellectually bankrupt.

Steve



--- Maria Stella <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> STEVE,
> I certainly DO NOT permit you to use this language (and moreover when i
> just said you are a gentleman, sorry, i take this back).
> Your previous message, below, gives some reference from JUNKSCIENCE that
> to me is literally junk science.
> Thereafter, i am lost, i don't know what you are talking about, and i
> don't know who is Trash Talk, and therefore i did not critisize them.   
>             
> 
> > Maria Stella,
> > 
> > Right now I am having a real hard time not calling you an idiot.  The
> > poeple at Trash Talk are independent of Junkscience.com. 
> 
> I don't understand what this has to do with me
> 
> > government as well.  Stella works for a University, and I don't know
> where
> > laura tox works.
> >
> 
> I think you are being a sheer bully here and you should be rejected from
> this list for harassment. I am a Biologist and i am working in Ecology
> and
> i do not work on aspartame. My conclusion for aspartame is that i don't
> know about it. If you do, please feel free to forward to us YOUR papers
> where you have proved the innocence of aspartame. In the case you can't
> i
> allow the list to judge your own credentials and aspartame authority.
> Also, in the case you don't, the difference between us is that i don't
> believe Junkscience and you seem to do. It is other people's work you
> are
> talking about, and i do claim that any scientific work CAN potentially
> be
> politically biased. I have strong reasons to believe that in the case of
> GMOS and aspartame, etc etc, scientific opinions are almost certainly
> not
> independent and factual. 
> However, despite my general suspicion, which is I believe the
> scientifically correct stance against the issue (agnosticism), 
> may i remind you that i did NOT express any opinion about
> aspartame and its biochemistry.
>  I expressed an opinion against the whole attitude of Junkscience, which
> i
> have good reasons to believe as flawed.
> 
>  
> > Also, you are misrepresenting Junkscience.com.  AFAIK there are two
> people
> > that run that site, Steve Milloy and an assitant.  As foe the sites
> > ethical credentials what the hell is that?  If you mean who is Steve
> > Milloy affiliated with...well I can say is an adjunct scholar for the
> Cato
> > Institute, he also works as a Washington D.C. lobbyist.  Now, if these
> two
> > things make him wrong, then any further discussion with you is
> pointless.
> > 
> 
> On the contrary, it is not pointless. I did not know this link and
> thanks
> between Milloy and the CATO institute, but i guessed such a think and it
> seems that my suspicion methodology works:
> The CATO institute is also FAMOUS for its ideological orientation, and
> certainly extremely un credible to many people around the world.  If i
> disvalue the credentials of Junkscience once, now i disvalue its
> credentials twice!
> 
> 
> > For crying out loud, I post two sites, each the polar opposite and 
> you
> > whine.  Also, I find it amazing you would not want to see what the
> > toxicologists have to say on this.  Typical of a TrueBeliever.
> > 
> 
> READ MY  MESSAGE THEN RIGHT BELOW AND SAY WHERE YOU SEE THAT 
> 1) I SAY SOMETHING AGAINST TRUSH TALK
> 2) I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ASPARTAME
> 
> 
> ms
> 
> 
> > 
> > --- Maria Stella <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > Steve, 
> > > Junkscience is FAMOUS now for the type of 'scientists' it attracts
> and
> > > their goals. Just by association, i have the feeling that you will
> not
> > > necessarily get the right answers there.
> > > Didn't you know the sites ethical credentials? Why am i associating
> it
> > > in
> > > my mind with Burston-Marstellar?
> > > 
> > > Just a thought
> > > MS
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Steve wrote:
> > > 
> > > > This is the second time John has mentioned Aspartame as being bad.
>  So
> > > out
> > > > of curiousity I looked around the web.  I found this appaling ugly
> > > site.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.dorway.com/
> > > > 
> > > > However, I was skeptical of the sight so I went to
> > > > 
> > > > www.junkscience.com to see what Steve Milloy has there
> > > > 
> > > > I did a search and found these documents there:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.junkscience.com/jun99/aspart.htm
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.junkscience.com/news/nutrasweet.html
> > > > 
> > > > At Trash Talk, the BB for Junkscience.com I have started a thread
> on
> > > > aspartame, particularly on a specific article at the
> anti-aspartame
> > > site
> > > > above.  Here is a link to the thread.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.cfis.org/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000069.html
> > > > 
> > > > Note I just started the thread so there maybe no replies yet. 
> > > However,
> > > > the people I have asked are all toxicologists.  I am asking for
> their
> > > > expert opinion on the article.
> > > > 
> > > > Steve
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- John Foster <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > Chris Perley:
> > > > > >You specifically say that "only irrational companies...[who do
> bad
> > > > > >things]......have to hire "public relations" folk."  Isn't this
> > > just a
> > > > > >little judgmental. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > No. I was answering you. Burson Marstellars hires the ex-US FDA
> > > chief
> > > > > who
> > > > > was an appointee of Ronald Reagan. This ex-US FDA chief was
> > > installed by
> > > > > Ronald Reagan to overturn a 14 year ban on Aspartame. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > There are serious health problems with Aspartame. Aspartme is a
> > > company
> > > > > owned by Monsanto. Why does Monsanto and Burson Marstellars
> share
> > > office
> > > > > space and services? 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > =====
> > > > "In a nutshell, he [Steve] is 100% unadulterated evil. I do not
> > > believe in a 'Satan', but this man is as close to 'the real McCoy'
> as
> > > they come." 
> > > > --Jamey Lee West
> > > > 
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > > > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > "In a nutshell, he [Steve] is 100% unadulterated evil. I do not
> believe in a 'Satan', but this man is as close to 'the real McCoy' as
> they come." 
> > --Jamey Lee West
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
> > http://invites.yahoo.com/
> > 
> 


=====
"In a nutshell, he [Steve] is 100% unadulterated evil. I do not believe in a 'Satan', but this man is as close to 'the real McCoy' as they come." 
--Jamey Lee West

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