medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From the librarian's desk:
The latest book I have seen on Indulgences is:
Personal author: *Shaffern, Robert W., 1963-*
<http://www.iris.rutgers.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/vC27pef5Ib/ALCOHOL/168020373/18/X100/XAUTHOR/Shaffern,+Robert+W.,+1963->
Title: The penitents' treasury : indulgences in Latin Christendom,
1175-1375 / Robert W. Shaffern.
Publication info: Scranton : University of Scranton Press, c2007.
Physical descrip: x, 240 p. ; 24 cm.
I do not recall, having read it 6 months ago, if it addresses this issue
in particular.
Tom Izbicki
Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> Thank you to everyone who replied to my query. I had actually been
> reading Maier's book, which is what prompted by question about how
> "buy outs" actually worked in practice, and in the whole spiritual and
> actual economy of crusade. And thanks to Jessalyn for the kind words.
>
> I would like to ask Andrew Larsen, whose post was fantastic, to tell
> me a bit more about "contingently meritorious" indulgences. I suppose
> I'm not quite clear on how this is theologically different from the
> preceding (and, as you say, later) form. In a sense, wouldn't' all
> penance be meritorious on God's favor? I understand this more as a
> theological refinement, than as something whcih would then need to be
> back away from, so may be someone (Andrew?) can unpack this more for
> me. I mean, I suppose that all "knights" are supposed to fight for
> their lord out of fidelity, and I have always understood that for the
> crusades this was no mere analogy but an actual amplification of
> knighthood's obligation to the Lord. In that sense, it cannot, I
> suppose, be penitential, and so it could then only be penitential if
> God allowed it.
>
> I'd love clarification.
>
> Thanks thanks, to all.
> cecilia
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 8:15 AM, Christopher Crockett
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> From: Jessalynn Bird <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>
> > Dear Cecilia,
>
> > Sorry for the delayed reply. What period was the vow redemption
> from? (This
> makes a big difference both in theory and in practice--as far as
> both can be
> surmised).
>
>
> which is all that kept me from offering a definitive answer to the
> original
> querry --all those late, Copy-Cat guys are of no interest to us
> Genuine Second
> Crusade People.
>
> > By the way, I just read your book on Louis IX with much
> interest. It is
> absolutely magnificent!
>
> Gaposchkin, M. Cecilia.
> The making of Saint Louis: kingship, sanctity, and crusade in the
> later Middle
> Ages.
> Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 2008.
> 331 p. : ill., maps
>
>
> yes, doesn't look too bad.
>
> one of those Fly-by-Night U.P.s, of course.
>
> c
>
>
> >On Behalf Of Cecilia Gaposchkin
>
> > I have just been reading about the redemption of crusading vows.
> One well
> > documented case involving a nobleman's redemption involved his
> payment of a
> > sum of money great enough to fund one miles for one year to go
> to the holy
> > land. For this, the nobleman received his plenary indulgence.
> >
> > Can someone tell me about the said "miles" who would go in the
> nobleman's
> > stead. Would he received the spiritual benefits of crusading?
> Would he get
> a
> > plenary indulgence? Is this a kind of "two for one" deal? Or
> would the sum
> > for the redemption, so calculated, be actually sent to the
> curial war
> chest,
> > rather than actually fund a replacement crusader.
> >
> > Thoughts and knowledge will be appreciated.
> >
> > thanks
> > cecilia
> >
> >
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